Prince Andrew Can't Sweat

Does this mean even his mother doesn’t believe him?

I think it’s irrelevant whether or not his mother believes him.

After nearly 70 years on the throne, I think it’s a dead cert that nothing comes before the reputation of the Monarchy, as far as the Queen is concerned,

The RF has divorced PA

Peasblossom

But still nobody can give me anything except opinion.

I do worry about a society where guilty is is a matter of personal prejudice.

It’s a sad state of affairs

To have suffered so much yet keeps the photograph of her abuser

VioletSky I’m so sorry for what happened to you

maddyone

VioletSky I’m so sorry for what happened to you

But still nobody can give me anything except opinion.

Of course they can’t, it’s not yet reached court. However people are actually allowed to form an opinion based on what has already been reported. Even when it does reach court, it will still be difficult to provide conclusive proof so many years later. In the end it will be proved by some facts and some reasonable speculation. I presume no one else was in the bedroom when the alleged abuse occurred.

VS I am sorry for what happened to you but I don't think it was quite what VG alleges? And yes I do use her initials because I can't be ar*ed to type her full name and be pulled up if I haven't spelled it correctly as Annie was. Ditto with a lot of people on GN whose names are shortened. I don't mind in the slightest being referred to as GSM. Why would I?

How can there be evidence that sexual abuse took place ?

She says yes, he says no.

Allegedly she told her boyfriend and the girl who gave evidence in Maxwell’s trial .

If Andrew has no proof he wasn’t in Tramps that evening does
Giuffrie have proof he was ?

*But still nobody can give me anything except opinion.
I do worry about a society where guilty is is a matter of personal prejudice.
I so agree,Peasblossom
The judge allowing the case has said his ruling does not determine 'truth or falsity' yet VG's lawyer has said 'a money settlement will not be enough'.
Not only are they presupposing the outcome of the case they are deciding the punishment as well.
How can this be justice?

If she couldn’t get Andrew into court did she have a powerful
American lined up ?

Anniebach "How can there be evidence that sexual abuse took place ?"

The same could be said about any historic sexual abuse case though. It is very often a case of one person's word against another and often comes down to even the smallest piece of corroborating evidence.

She named six men; Andrew and five Americans. One was Alan Dershowitch, Epstein's former attorney who knew about the sealed agreement and cited it in order to have the case against him dropped. Why this argument does not pertain to Andrew I do not understand.
The American 'justice' system is terrifying.

Blondiescot the problem is two countries, Giuffrie was here for a very short visit.

One person has claimed to have seen Andrew dancing in Tramps, will she need to give the date and time, she may have
seen him in Tramps but when ?

Agree eaxybee no way can Andrew have a fair trial, guilty or not .

Let's remember this is a civil case and not a criminal one. The level of proof is less than that required in criminal actions and if the jury finds he did do it he will not be "guilty" he will be "liable"

Will it be a jury then or only a judge?

So little if any proof required

But with so much previous publicity how can anyone now be impartial? Apparently his interview with Emily Maitliss will play a crucial role.
What a fool.

He hasn’t a hope

eazybee

And VG's experience was so terrible she allegedly returned twice more.
That is why I don't believe her.

And mine Violet and Callistemon. She’s shown courage because some of the unkind, dismissive, critical comments here will be very familiar to Virginia Guffrien. It’s not unusual for victims to be criticised and diminished.
Eazybee, - as Violet has said, as an adult she went along with visits to her abuser and smiled.
Those girls in the grooming gang situations returned time and again. They weren’t only seduced and corrupted in the way Epstein and Maxwell’s victims were. Yet, back they went. I remember the criticisms on this forum, suggesting those girls were making lifestyle choices. Choices - some of us are more fortunate in the choices we are able to make

What I don't quite get, if Miss Giuffre was so badly abused - why is she looking so radiantly happy in her very skimpy little top in the photograph with Andrew. Please don't shoot me down - I am seriously confused by this.

Why would that be?
There are lots of people who have pictures of their abusive partners, posing for happy family pictures.
Lots of child victims of abuse, smiling and playing.

I've said before, you may see a snapshot of me laughing my head off; am I happy?
Nope.

Peasblossom

Will it be a jury then or only a judge?

Oh well, I’ll answer my own question.

It will be decided by a judge alone unless either party requests a jury.

I expect both sides will be considering whether it’s best to do this or not. I can see pluses and minuses both ways.

I suspect like many girls in her position, she felt important, chosen. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t exploited and trafficked. I’ve not read her story, but I’ve seen a few of the other victims interviewed as adults. One talked about introducing her younger sister, an aspiring artist, who Epstein promised to help. He helped her into his abuse ring. The two sisters were interviewed, they helped explain how they were drawn in. As young adults they got out and built lives,
That’s what Virginia Guffrie did,Epstein sent her to Thailand on a massage course. She met her future husband there and didn’t return to Epstein.