Vagina Museum

Peasblossom

trisher

Copper3

Women have wombs.
Transwomen do not! No offense, but fact!

A friend of mine had hers removed at 29 because of cervical cancer. My mother had hers removed at 26 are you suggesting once they hadn't a womb they were no longer women?

No, no that’s a fallacious argument.

Akin to

Dogs have tails.
Apes do not have tails.
Therefore dogs are apes.

No logic or intelligence applied there.

There are also believe it or not women who are born without wombs. It's a genetic condition. But apparently they aren't women metro.co.uk/2019/03/31/grandmother-gives-birth-to-her-own-grandchild-as-her-daughter-was-born-without-a-womb-9072378/

By the way the 7 stories element doesn't apply to JKR at all. Not unless you regard the story of a girl from a non-witch family attending a school for witches where one of the teachers hates her as one of the 7. I can't be bothered to post all the other similarities but they are here contentinfantasy.blogspot.com/2015/10/similarities-between-harry-potter-worst.html
It would have been nice if JKR had at least acknowledged Jill Murphy as an influence, but she never has.

There are also believe it or not women who are born without wombs. It's a genetic condition. But apparently they aren't women

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse, or if you really believe that women who are born without a uterus are not women, but if they have female gametes they are women. If they have male ones they are men. Other quirks of nature are irrelevant.

Doodledog

*There are also believe it or not women who are born without wombs. It's a genetic condition. But apparently they aren't women*

I don't know if you are being deliberately obtuse, or if you really believe that women who are born without a uterus are not women, but if they have female gametes they are women. If they have male ones they are men. Other quirks of nature are irrelevant.

Perhaps you should address that post to Copper3 Doodledog I'm just quoting.

Other quirks of nature are irrelevant.
What a lovely thing to call another woman. I can't decide if it's worse to be a quirk or irrelevant.

Oh, for goodness sake.

We have now moved to the stage, where you deliberately twist what I say. I didn't call anyone a quirk of nature, or irrelevant, as anyone not looking to be offensive can see by reading my post.

I think that's pretty mild considering some of the things you've tried to accuse me of Doodledog. But hey if you can twist things so can I.

Trisher, your expertise in twisting and sidetracking is second to none, but this latest really made me l***h.
Why should JKR say anything. Jill Murphy got her ideas from Elinor M Brent-Dyer who had girls from different backgrounds going away to boarding school and learning different things. There was bullying-though EBD stamped on it rather than making it the unpleasant main focus of all her stories as Jill Murphy did and JKR didn’t.
They had scholarship children who the bullies didn’t feel should be there. They had potions lessons where things sometimes went wrong, though in those days it was called cookery. They had dormitories, visitors, celebrations, teachers with particular foibles all of which were used in the WW books.
I never read that Jill Murphy acknowledged that she took her ideas from EBD, but now you’ve raised the issue, perhaps she should have.

Gametes are the determining factor for sex trisher, not wombs, or breasts, or a penis, testes or a cervix; they can never be changed. You can physically alter your appearance in any way you wish, wear a dress, high heels, lipstick and a bondage corset with a whip if you want to. But you can never, ever change your gametes and it's utterly futile to continue to rail against that immutable fact.

Jenni Murray has written a superb article for the Daily Mail, directly in response to the Louise Dodds interview on Woman's Hour, in which Ms Dodds struggled to explain what the definition of a woman is:

"Why do female politicians, who owe their place in the corridors of power thanks to the efforts of thousands of women who campaigned for their rights, appear unable to define what and who they are?"

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10600455/JENNI-MURRAY-point-women-Parliament-theyre-scared-say-woman-is.html

Thanks for that Chewbacca. Excellent point.

Anneliese Dodds not Louise although I don't feel too bad mucking up her name

Chewbacca

Gametes are the determining factor for sex trisher, not wombs, or breasts, or a penis, testes or a cervix; they can never be changed. You can physically alter your appearance in any way you wish, wear a dress, high heels, lipstick and a bondage corset with a whip if you want to. But you can never, ever change your gametes and it's utterly futile to continue to rail against that immutable fact.

Thank you, Chewbacca.

trisher

Peasblossom

trisher

Copper3

Women have wombs.
Transwomen do not! No offense, but fact!

A friend of mine had hers removed at 29 because of cervical cancer. My mother had hers removed at 26 are you suggesting once they hadn't a womb they were no longer women?

No, no that’s a fallacious argument.

Akin to

Dogs have tails.
Apes do not have tails.
Therefore dogs are apes.

No logic or intelligence applied there.

There are also believe it or not women who are born without wombs. It's a genetic condition. But apparently they aren't women metro.co.uk/2019/03/31/grandmother-gives-birth-to-her-own-grandchild-as-her-daughter-was-born-without-a-womb-9072378/

Yes which is why, as I said, your argument lacked logic and intelligence of any kind.

I haven't looked at the list of 7 basic plots, but I did read a couple of the earlier HP stories (before I got bored with their rather repetitive nature) This was when they were being condemned in some religious circles for supposedly encouraging interest in black magic and devil worship.

I argued with one or two people that my interpretation was that they were about a ngelected/abused child going to boarding school and finding like-minded friends and teachers who supported him in developing his own talents, against the opposition of some nasty fellow-pupils and some dastardly criminals.

Standard coming-of-age-while-relying-on-friends-not-family plots. Very inspirational for teenagers - and reminiscent of a whole genre of boarding-school books. Should we condemn all those other authors for using the same devices as their predecessors?

How anyone can say the Harry Potter series has no link to the 7 story/archetype ? The orphan making his/her way is a recurring theme in myth and story telling.

I read Jenni Murray in the DM this morning as well Chewbacca. I’d heard Annelise Dodds and despaired. I’m off to write to Yvette Cooper, who I like, to ask her to elaborate on her rabbit hole comment. Reading these threads is reminiscent of Alice in Wonderland at times

trisher doesn't read or acknowledge posts that detract from the twist she wants to use. We've said many times that absence of female sex organs whether by removal or absence since birth does not affect the sex of a person. trisher deliberately misunderstands a poster's, clear to any intelligent person, comment and then proceeds to keep using that to justify her slant. Some people are born with a leg missing, that doesn't mean they're not part of our bipedal species. A female born without a uterus is a female born without a uterus.

Elegran
Standard coming-of-age-while-relying-on-friends-not-family plots. Very inspirational for teenagers - and reminiscent of a whole genre of boarding-school books. Should we condemn all those other authors for using the same devices as their predecessors?
It happens all the time as you’ve pointed out from your research into the 7 basic plots.
Next will we be required to
- condemn all those crime writers for having a dénouement scene when the unexpected culprit is revealed?
-condemn all those romance writers, who still have a happy ever after ending?

No of course we shouldn’t, but if a poster is desperate for something to post . . .

The one thing that unites all of these:
White woman
Black woman
Tall woman
Old woman
Young woman

Is their biological makeup - gametes and chromosomes

The one thing that unites all of these:
White man
Black man
Tall man
Old man
Young man

Is their biological makeup - gametes and chromosomes.

The two cannot be altered, transferred, chemically engineered or intertwined. They are, and always will be, what separates one sex from another. Whilst I can take on board that this biological fact will be difficult for those of us who struggle to accept that the world is not as we would always like it to be, it is, regrettably, a scientific fact. Please just accept it; it's not going to change anytime soon.

Good factual post Chewbacca and I’d love to say unarguable facts . . .

But how long do you think it will take?

Mollygo -unarguable facts

Unfortunately in my daily life I don't go around checking any of the things that you all seem to imagine I do. (Really do you not understand when someone is taking the piss?)
I haven't so far asked any of the women I have met if they have a womb, a vagina, or a penis. Nor have I checked their gametes or chromosomes. But if that's how you live that's fine. Personally I tend to accept the person standing next to me as a woman if she says she is one. Because actually I can't see how there is any other way to live, and, if there were to be any checks imposed on every day living, to prove who is, or isn't, a woman I can't see that that would be anything but harmful to all of us, including those who choose to describe themselves as natal women. Carry on with your prejudice and discrimination, but be very careful because regimes which have condemned trans people in the past have never stopped at just them.

No really trisher I don’t waste my time imagining you do anything.
You however imply that others go round asking the questions that you don’t.
trisher says
Really do you not understand when someone is taking the piss.
How am I supposed to know the difference between any of your posts which you claim are taking the piss since you used such a vulgar expression and any of your usual posts when they all look the same?

As for prejudice-you could be considered one the best illustrators of that on GN. Prejudice against anyone who quotes facts.
Prejudice against JKR. (What did she ever do to you I wonder!)
Prejudice against anyone who sees womens’ rights as being overridden by some members of the public including some TW.
Incidentally, do you think JM mentioned to EBD that she was using her ideas or was your post on JM and JKR one of your TTP posts? Perhaps you could label your TTP posts in future, so we don’t get confused.

^ (Really do you not understand when someone is taking the piss?)^

Great now we know not to believe or trust a word you post because you might just be 'taking the piss' again.

I think most of us just want woman to mean an adult human female and transwoman to mean a man who wishes to live and present as a woman. As the trans community appear to be quite happy to use 3 words where one used to suffice (e.g people who menstruate rather than women), spaces and services could be designated as being for women, or women and transwomen, or transwomen. Then we'd all know where we stand apart from those like India Willoughby who now insists having had surgery she is biologically female. But you can't cater to the totally deluded or liars.