Vagina Museum

At about 2.20, in this video, MW makes clear that he did not admit his male sex at interview.

youtu.be/HT_ryngVhcU

trisher

Lathyrus

I particularly note that Wadhwa admits that there are Rape survivors who do not use the Rape Crusus Centre because of the policy of inclusion of transwomen.

Clearly they will have to address their “bigotry” before they can access help at the Centre because their fear of males means they won’t even go near the door.

There is a clear choice here. Provide a service for them that they feel able to access or provide a service that includes transwomen.

I would support the former. Trisha would support the latter. She favours transwomen, But she can’t pretend she supports both.

I suppose that report in the Critic will really encourage women to seek help. It is a tragedy and neither MW nor The Critic would seem to have those women's best interests at heart. Both are intent on pursuing some agenda of their own. I suspect one reason MW was appointed was because of her ethnic origins and the difficulties of dealing with violence against women in minority communities an area she has experience of.

Perhap. The irony being that women from those ethnic communities are even less likely to access services that include transwomen who are intact males.

Would you support a separate facility that ensured there would be natal women only? A peer to peer facility? To give these survivors the support they need?

If there were such a facility and a choice it would become clear which was the one that most rape survivors wanted. Which should, I think be the most important thing.

You want Mridul Wadhwa's own words trisher.

Here is a link to a direct quote :

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Within that, there are also links to audio and transcript of the complete podcast of Mridul Wadhwa.

trisher

OFG Doodledog how many times do I have to say it.
There is a transwomen prison unit and that is where they are and should be housed.
The law says if any woman would not use a service because a transwoman was present they can be excluded I agree with the law and think it should be enforced.
I think victims in court need proper protection, should always have the alternative of presenting their evidence by remote means and should have no need to face any one they are afraid of, listen to them, pay attention to them or in any way be forced to do anything they are uncomfortable with.
As for not lecturing you about Caster Semenya and the other black women being discriminated against in sport well if you actually acknowledged there is a real problem and black women are suffering I wouldn't need to. But not being an intersectional feminist I suppose accepting and acknowledging white privilege is difficult for you.

See above Doodledog
When you can limit your posts I may limit mine until then accept the answer or not, I can quote this as many times as necessary.

FarNorth

You want Mridul Wadhwa's own words trisher.

Here is a link to a direct quote :

forwomen.scot/10/08/2021/the-real-crisis-at-rape-crisis-scotland/

Within that, there are also links to audio and transcript of the complete podcast of Mridul Wadhwa.

Thanks FarNorth I have read that before and listened to the podcast.
I have no idea why MW was appointed. I think some of her language sometimes seems to be combative, but I am aware it is a second language and allowances may be necessary. As I understand it she isn't a therapist she's an administrator.
I do think that both sides on this entrenched argument are doing a disservice to women. MW would do better to stop discussing therapies and admit it isn't her job, and the anti-trans brigade should stop using every opportunity to push their own agenda. The only satisfactory conclusion to this would involve compromise on both sides.

trisher The law says if any woman would not use a service because a transwoman was present they can be excluded I agree with the law and think it should be enforced. I've also seen you say that we shouldn't blame the transwoman but lack of law enforcement. Given so may organisations are too scared of being called transphobic, and indeed Stonewall (who count a great many official organisations amongst their 'clients') actually misrepresent the law to those diversity partners, there is a lack of willingness to enforce the law. Do you not agree that the transwomen who knowingly insist on being in these spaces, even when it excludes women, are to blame? I thought we normally blame the transgressor whether or not they receive official sanction. Is a burglar only to blame if s/he gets caught and sanctioned?

Do you think that male-bodied transwomen should be housed in female prisons, even if they are sex offenders?
Evasive answer 1. when she can’t say no.
There is a transwomen prison unit and that is where they are and should be housed. Why evasive? Do all prisons have such a unit? If there was no such unit or pleas were made by the prisoners e.g. about distance from home, what would you do trisher?
Q. Do you think that male-bodied transwomen should be allowed to stay in women's DV refuges?
Evasive answer 2. means trisher doesn’t agree that any already traumatised woman should not be put in the position of having to face a MBTW and puts the responsibility on the traumatised female to say so.
Thinks it OK if a woman is afraid to access a secure environment because there might be a male there.
The law does not exclude males or transwomen from secure facilities for women. Trisha agrees with the law.
I’ll look at the rest of her evasions ASAP.

It would be nice if she would answer my question too.

AmberSpyglass

Just popping in to say that trans women are women and deserve to be in any space where cis women are. And the law, by and large, supports that.

More like ‘popping in to be offensive to many, many women who consider themselves to be exactly that - women. Not cis women.

Thanks for posting the Critic piece Chewbacca. Self censorship when a publication doesn’t fit with your ideology sounds a bit Stalinist to me.
If ethnicity was a factor in appointing this individual, I can’t see women from many black or Asian communities wanting their input or advice. The ideology wouldn’t fit with their faith or cultural needs in many cases. Asian women I’ve known have been excluded by their community for naming domestic abuse. Being associated with this individual would only make it worse

trisher

trisher

OFG Doodledog how many times do I have to say it.
There is a transwomen prison unit and that is where they are and should be housed.
The law says if any woman would not use a service because a transwoman was present they can be excluded I agree with the law and think it should be enforced.
I think victims in court need proper protection, should always have the alternative of presenting their evidence by remote means and should have no need to face any one they are afraid of, listen to them, pay attention to them or in any way be forced to do anything they are uncomfortable with.
As for not lecturing you about Caster Semenya and the other black women being discriminated against in sport well if you actually acknowledged there is a real problem and black women are suffering I wouldn't need to. But not being an intersectional feminist I suppose accepting and acknowledging white privilege is difficult for you.

See above Doodledog
When you can limit your posts I may limit mine until then accept the answer or not, I can quote this as many times as necessary.

Sorry - I missed your reply.

1. Ok, but where there are no transwomen's vacancies? As I understand it there are few. Should a self-identifying transwoman be housed with male or female prisoners when there is no space in a trans wing?

2. Yes, you have said this before, but it doesn't answer the question. Risk assessments are all very well, but a likely scenario is that, if a TRA were doing the assessment they would genuinely believe that a transwoman posed no risk, but a traumatised woman, running from a violent man could well take a very different view (rightly or wrongly). Given that DV refuges were set up by women for women, whose 'side' would you take?

3. Again, you have evaded the question. Can we cut to the chase? Do you think that the victim should have to refer to her rapist as 'she', when he is a male bodied transwoman?

4. As this is a snide and unfounded dig, suggesting that I am racist and you are some sort of White Saviour, I shall count it as another evasion. How anyone can think that you don't make personal remarks is beyond me.

Luckily, Edinburgh also has Shakti - a domestic violence charity for women from ethnic minorities.
I'm pretty sure that charity knows what a woman is.

^Do you think that male-bodied transwomen should be housed in female prisons, even if they are sex offenders?
Evasive answer 1. when she can’t say no.
There is a transwomen prison unit and that is where they are and should be housed. Why evasive? Do all prisons have such a unit? If there was no such unit or pleas were made by the prisoners e.g. about distance from home, what would you do trisher?^
Of course all prisons don't have such a unit. Per se the unit is where transwomen should be housed and no other considerations given because that is where she is safest and best cared for. How the hell is that evasive! Transwomen should be in transwomen units. For one thing they would be safer than being exposed to some women. I think that is obvious from some of the remarks on these threads.
Evasive answer 2. means trisher doesn’t agree that any already traumatised woman should not be put in the position of having to face a MBTW and puts the responsibility on the traumatised female to say so.

I know women who have very close friendships with transwomen. Are you saying that traumatised women would never form such friendships, or are you denying them the right to choose their own therapist? Some traumatised women may choose not to meet transwomen, not all traumatiised women will behave in this way. You simply want to impose your own prejudices onto women. Which actually proves how inconsiderate you really are. You dislike transwomen therefore all women especially traumatised women must.

The law does not exclude males or transwomen from secure facilities for women
The law excludes men from any facility or place where their presence might prevent other women attending as I think you know.
If you are referring to past judicial decisions where transwomen were sent to women's prisons I think the situation was one which the authorities had massively failed to realise was happening and faced with the suicide of 4 transwomen in male prisons they chose to send transwomen to women's prisons. It is something they are trying to rectify. It was undoubtedly wrong and should have been foreseen. But then prisons are massively underfunded.

trisher You didn't answer Doodledog's question though did you? So I'll ask again. If the transwomen's unit is full with absolutely zero capacity for another inmate do you send the transwoman offender to a male or female facility or do they get a free pass? 3 options, for the sake of clarity would you be so good as to choose one?

The law says if any woman would not use a service because a transwoman was present they can be excluded I agree with the law and think it should be enforced.

The law also says that single-sex places can exclude transwomen if it is a legitimate means of achieving a justifiable aim.
The law, Equality Act 2010, even gives the example of women's refuges as places where transwomen can legitimately be excluded.

Risk is not the only reason to exclude males from women's services.
If a woman has been told that a service is single-sex, it can be very upsetting to find a male person there even if he poses no risk.
In particular, if a woman believes a service to be single-sex and then realises that someone who appeared to be a woman is actually male - can you not imagine that causing distress?

Why continue to call services single-sex, if they are not?
Why not call them mixed-sex?

'Distance from home' is of no relevance to the housing of prisoners.
Prisoners are often taken to a different part of the country, to a prison suitable for them.

Rosie51

trisher You didn't answer Doodledog's question though did you? So I'll ask again. If the transwomen's unit is full with absolutely zero capacity for another inmate do you send the transwoman offender to a male or female facility or do they get a free pass? 3 options, for the sake of clarity would you be so good as to choose one?

If this happened (do you spend all your timethinking up scenarios to try and catch me out- God your life must be boring) I would expect the transwomen to be properly assessed and housed in a secure facility where she would be properly cared for, her propensity for suicide monitored and her safety ensured. As most secure units are in male prisons it would probably be in a male prison. As I have very little knowledge about secure units though, it could be possible that there might be a women's prison with a secure unit which would be suitable. If you have detailed knowledge about secure units I would be delighted to know.

In Scotland, transactivists deliberately campaigned to have transwomen housed in women's prisons.
This is described by James Morton, of Scottish Trans Alliance, in a chapter of the book Trans Britain edited by Christine Burns.
The aim was to have the Prison Service say that there are no problems with doing this and thus others would be persuaded that Trans Women Are Women in every possible situation.
The Prison Service has since admitted that "no evidence of problems" is because they have not kept any separate record of incidents involving transwomen.
All have been recorded as if they involved females only.

A secure unit, in any prison, where a transwoman would have no contact with women, would be fine.
That's not what is happening, tho.

I know women who have very close friendships with transwomen. Are you saying that traumatised women would never form such friendships, or are you denying them the right to choose their own therapist? Some traumatised women may choose not to meet transwomen, not all traumatiised women will behave in this way. You simply want to impose your own prejudices onto women. Which actually proves how inconsiderate you really are. You dislike transwomen therefore all women especially traumatised women must.
So many assumptions!

Not wanting women who prefer a female counsellor to have a male-bodied one thrust upon her is not at all the same thing as saying that they will never form a friendship with a transwoman. That is ridiculous. As is the assumption that Mollygo wants to impose anything, that she is inconsiderate or that she 'dislikes transwomen'.

If you are going to be personal and offensive, at least try to adhere to some sort of logic as you do it?

(do you spend all your timethinking up scenarios to try and catch me out- God your life must be boring) hmm only female security, including armed police at an airport....suspected terrorist who presents as a transwoman may be carrying a bomb and needs searching ie a pat down..... and you accuse me ????

My thinking there could be no space in one of the very limited capacity transwomen units is 'thought up'.... really? Not to catch you out, trying to get a straight answer from someone who twists everything, and evades straight answers.

You know the more I read on these threads the more I realise that the people who continue to post really don't want solution of any sort.
So transwomen in prisons. Saying "No" they shouldn't be in women's prisons would in some cases be virtually sentencing them to death. Is that OK?
That we are aware of, there has been one death of a transgender woman in a men's prison each year in 2018, 2017 and 2016, two in 2015, and one in 2013.

Doodledog

*I know women who have very close friendships with transwomen. Are you saying that traumatised women would never form such friendships, or are you denying them the right to choose their own therapist? Some traumatised women may choose not to meet transwomen, not all traumatiised women will behave in this way. You simply want to impose your own prejudices onto women. Which actually proves how inconsiderate you really are. You dislike transwomen therefore all women especially traumatised women must.*
So many assumptions!

Not wanting women who prefer a female counsellor to have a male-bodied one thrust upon her is not at all the same thing as saying that they will never form a friendship with a transwoman. That is ridiculous. As is the assumption that Mollygo wants to impose anything, that she is inconsiderate or that she 'dislikes transwomen'.

If you are going to be personal and offensive, at least try to adhere to some sort of logic as you do it?

If you are saying traumatised women wouldn't choose a transwomen or couldn't be counselled by a transwomen you are effectively placing your prejudices onto them. If friendships can be formed, succesful counselling can be undertaken. It is the victim's choice and it is not for anyone to impose their views on them. It is just as wrong to insist a woman can't choose a transwoman counsellor as it is to say they must choose one.

trisher

You know the more I read on these threads the more I realise that the people who continue to post really don't want solution of any sort.
So transwomen in prisons. Saying "No" they shouldn't be in women's prisons would in some cases be virtually sentencing them to death. Is that OK?
That we are aware of, there has been one death of a transgender woman in a men's prison each year in 2018, 2017 and 2016, two in 2015, and one in 2013.

I’ve suggested a solution, asked if you would support it and you’ve just ignored it.

I guess because it doesn’t really give you anywhere to twist and hide,

Would you support an alternative Rape Centre that would give women a choice of seeking help with and from natal women only. Or is you support for a Centre that acknowledges that a number of rape survivors cannot access its services.

As I said before there is no middle ground here. The Centre has to be one or the other. Where do you stand?

trisher

^Do you think that male-bodied transwomen should be housed in female prisons, even if they are sex offenders?
Evasive answer 1. when she can’t say no.
There is a transwomen prison unit and that is where they are and should be housed. Why evasive? Do all prisons have such a unit? If there was no such unit or pleas were made by the prisoners e.g. about distance from home, what would you do trisher?^
Of course all prisons don't have such a unit. Per se the unit is where transwomen should be housed and no other considerations given because that is where she is safest and best cared for. How the hell is that evasive! Transwomen should be in transwomen units. For one thing they would be safer than being exposed to some women. I think that is obvious from some of the remarks on these threads.
Evasive answer 2. means trisher doesn’t agree that any already traumatised woman should not be put in the position of having to face a MBTW and puts the responsibility on the traumatised female to say so.

I know women who have very close friendships with transwomen. Are you saying that traumatised women would never form such friendships, or are you denying them the right to choose their own therapist? Some traumatised women may choose not to meet transwomen, not all traumatiised women will behave in this way. You simply want to impose your own prejudices onto women. Which actually proves how inconsiderate you really are. You dislike transwomen therefore all women especially traumatised women must.

The law does not exclude males or transwomen from secure facilities for women
The law excludes men from any facility or place where their presence might prevent other women attending as I think you know.
If you are referring to past judicial decisions where transwomen were sent to women's prisons I think the situation was one which the authorities had massively failed to realise was happening and faced with the suicide of 4 transwomen in male prisons they chose to send transwomen to women's prisons. It is something they are trying to rectify. It was undoubtedly wrong and should have been foreseen. But then prisons are massively underfunded.

If it’s as simple as you say, why not just answer yes or no instead of using obfuscation? Are you afraid to say yes or no?

I’ve noticed you always “know someone” you can use to support your points.
What have womens’ friendships got to do with the issue of having to say you don’t want to talk to a male about the abuse you’ve suffered, instead of knowing that you won’t be faced by a male.
Why do you constantly say I dislike transwomen? (a trisherism coming up) I am friends with several transwomen, but if I had been abused by a man I wouldn’t look to them for support. Denying women the right to secure places without them having to reiterate their concerns about men, including TW is discrimination worthy of the most patriarchal feminist.

Try reading the posts on here. Find me one where any poster has said they dislike transwomen, or are you ‘taking the piss’ again and I didn’t recognise it like you accused me of doing before?

Mollygo

trisher

^Do you think that male-bodied transwomen should be housed in female prisons, even if they are sex offenders?
Evasive answer 1. when she can’t say no.
There is a transwomen prison unit and that is where they are and should be housed. Why evasive? Do all prisons have such a unit? If there was no such unit or pleas were made by the prisoners e.g. about distance from home, what would you do trisher?^
Of course all prisons don't have such a unit. Per se the unit is where transwomen should be housed and no other considerations given because that is where she is safest and best cared for. How the hell is that evasive! Transwomen should be in transwomen units. For one thing they would be safer than being exposed to some women. I think that is obvious from some of the remarks on these threads.
Evasive answer 2. means trisher doesn’t agree that any already traumatised woman should not be put in the position of having to face a MBTW and puts the responsibility on the traumatised female to say so.

I know women who have very close friendships with transwomen. Are you saying that traumatised women would never form such friendships, or are you denying them the right to choose their own therapist? Some traumatised women may choose not to meet transwomen, not all traumatiised women will behave in this way. You simply want to impose your own prejudices onto women. Which actually proves how inconsiderate you really are. You dislike transwomen therefore all women especially traumatised women must.

The law does not exclude males or transwomen from secure facilities for women
The law excludes men from any facility or place where their presence might prevent other women attending as I think you know.
If you are referring to past judicial decisions where transwomen were sent to women's prisons I think the situation was one which the authorities had massively failed to realise was happening and faced with the suicide of 4 transwomen in male prisons they chose to send transwomen to women's prisons. It is something they are trying to rectify. It was undoubtedly wrong and should have been foreseen. But then prisons are massively underfunded.

If it’s as simple as you say, why not just answer yes or no instead of using obfuscation? Are you afraid to say yes or no?

I’ve noticed you always “know someone” you can use to support your points.
What have womens’ friendships got to do with the issue of having to say you don’t want to talk to a male about the abuse you’ve suffered, instead of knowing that you won’t be faced by a male.
Why do you constantly say I dislike transwomen? (a trisherism coming up) I am friends with several transwomen, but if I had been abused by a man I wouldn’t look to them for support. Denying women the right to secure places without them having to reiterate their concerns about men, including TW is discrimination worthy of the most patriarchal feminist.

Try reading the posts on here. Find me one where any poster has said they dislike transwomen, or are you ‘taking the piss’ again and I didn’t recognise it like you accused me of doing before?

Mollygo as i have said before people used to say "I have nothing against black/gay people I know some" and then proceed to post the most racist/homophobic things you can imagine. Just like happens on these threads. I have nothing against transwomen, but I deny them the right to be women. Which is what they want. What's the difference between that and telling black people to get to the back of the bus? It's inequality. It's judgemental and it's impossible to enforce anyway.

It isn't obfuscation to give a comprehensive answer to a question but here's one for you if you believe in Yes or No answers
Would you send a transwoman who had threatened suicide to a male prison?