Another baby killed

Most dogs do not bite. Most dogs do not bite BUT all dogs CAN bite . Zoejory so why would anyone have a dog with a small baby or child in the house
One of my now grown grand children has never been happy with dogs around him (ignores them mostly) simply because as a young 2/3 year old he was knocked over by a boxer dog that stood over him the dog meant no harm and was not a nasty dog but he was terrified he was out playing by the front of the house with his mum when it charged up with its owner way behind

I don’t dislike dogs at all and had a beauty when I was a young wife but I thoroughly dislike the modern way of putting dogs on a pedestal paying thousands of pounds for a mongrel with a made up name, dressing them in clothes / carrying them around, taking them to restaurants ( my pet hate) and in shops and expecting everyone to be in love or interested in your pooch and (yes they do smell even well kept dogs do have an aroma about them)

I don’t necessarily love or are interested in everyone else’s dog that doesn’t make me a dog hater

It beggers belief how often this happens ! So distressing . A dog is dog and IMO certain breeds can never be trusted. They can turn without provocation . Sickens me to read such devastating news so often.

This argument comes up on this subject and any other where a small group within a larger group cause problems. The argument is always that those that cause the problem are a small minority and everyone else is virtuous, so thats all right.

We used to live close to a university, that in our many years living there generally caused no problems, but one year group for some reason was over run by vandals who did extensive damage to cars, used gardens as public lavatories - and front paths and porches.

Being assured that most students did not do this, which residents accepted, is no consolation when your garden is fouled by human excrement and your own student daughter has all four tyres on her car slashed when she comes home for the weekend.

I have twice been attacked by dogs, once only a few years ago while walking locally I met a small woman who was clearly struggling to hold two dogs, fierce enough to be muzzled. When we met, despite just standing quietly while they passed, the dogs leapt at me and the path was too narrow for me to get right out of theirway. The owner could not stop them and I was left with a large bruise on my arm where the muzzled mouth of one dog hit me. What would have happened if the dogs had not been muzzled, I hate to think.

So 'only' 23 people have been killed by dogs in recent year. How many hundreds of thousands have experienced attacks like mine and others, and gone home shaken, but have not involved the police, or sought medical attention.

The argument that 'most' dogs are fine, should not be used to justify the less serious attacks that happen routinely to so many thousands of other people.

There just needs to be better regulation and vetting and regulation around training, I think. Even if it is 1:1 training if the dog is too difficult to train in a group.

There are just far too many dogs - according to Statista, 33% of UK households have one, which is an extraordinary number.

With so many dogs and no doubt a lot of negligent/ignorant owners there will be many more of these tragedies in the making.

As to dog excrement - I do a lot of walking in the streets and parks and although the majority of owners do pick up and dispose, it does mean that you can never sit directly on grass or let babies/young children crawl around as there is bound to be faeces residue left behind, never mind the sheer volume of dog p*ss that is everywhere.

There are some on here who admit they don’t like dogs. Kate says she is put off her breakfast by seeing a man clearing up after his dog when she has presumably happily changed her children’s nappies.

Dogs have to be properly trained and socialised. So do children. It’s a parent’s responsibility to bring up their child to be a decent member of society rather than a feral pest with no respect for people or property. Likewise with dogs.

Those who simply hate all dogs will never accept that the problem is not the dog, it is the owner who has not trained and socialised it in the way they would automatically do when bringing up their children.

The dog who killed this little girl was an American bully breed. They’re not on the list of banned breeds and their temperament is said to be calm. They’re the breed I mentioned earlier, breeders in this country illegally cropping the ears of puppies. I assume it’s to make them look more menacing, as used to happen with Doberman dogs.
The DM reports the father of this poor child bought the dog a week earlier. His plan, to stud the dog for a fee of £2500 a time.

As I’ve made clear, I have always shared my life with dogs. I’ve rescued, fostered and have had six puppies from different breeds over the past 45 years. I have never had a dog whose temperament posed a threat to any person or child. That includes my 2 German shepherd dogs. I accept some posters would see me as part of the problem but my dogs are trained, contained, not allowed to race up to dogs/people.
I do believe dog breeding has to be better regulated. I’m not sure how but hobby breeding is out of control. People putting any spaniel to any poodle to create cockapoo pups to sell at £3000 or more. It’s madness.

Germanshepherdsmum

There are some on here who admit they don’t like dogs. Kate says she is put off her breakfast by seeing a man clearing up after his dog when she has presumably happily changed her children’s nappies.

Dogs have to be properly trained and socialised. So do children. It’s a parent’s responsibility to bring up their child to be a decent member of society rather than a feral pest with no respect for people or property. Likewise with dogs.

Those who simply hate all dogs will never accept that the problem is not the dog, it is the owner who has not trained and socialised it in the way they would automatically do when bringing up their children.

Spot on
Mind you the command sit lie down stay works better with my children's dogs than the grandchildren
I am a doggy person I do not have my own at this moment in time but the bond between dog and human is priceless many a happy time with my glorious Boxers

We once had a rescue dog for many years. He never put a foot wrong, friendly, good with children etc. One day ,when he was around 10 years old, we took him out for a walk and he suddenly rushed at another dog, straight for his throat. There is always a first time and we were just relieved it was another dog. As I said before, they are animals. Animals are unpredictable.

I certainly wouldn’t blame anyone for having a well trained well looked after dog like you Iam64 BUT and here’s the but how many out of the thousands of dogs fall into that catergary

We have the over indulged fat dog taken out in a pushchair, to dogs dressed in ridiculous clothes ( hearing Karen Brady on the apprentice talk about having matching christmas pyjamas for her dog made me reach for the sick bucket) to dogs trained to kill, to dogs poorly managed and poorly trained, to dogs badly bred So out of the thousands and thousands of dogs how many are actually looked after correctly, trained correctly, and not over pampered
I have no figures at all probably no one has but I bet a third fall into the later category
This is absolutely nothing to do with dog lovers or dog haters it has to do with proper laws and correct education about owning any pet
Dogs are no longer licensed, what is being done about puppy farms, bad breeding (making a quick buck like the father whose baby has just so horrifically died) buying and selling animals on social media, dog fighting, I could go on and on
Something needs doing

This country with its millions of dogs needs tightening up on every aspect of dog ownership .

I hadn’t heard about the plan to use the dog for breeding. So an entire dog (ours have always been castrated/spayed) intended to produce income, and in totally the wrong hands. Breeding should be far more strictly controlled. Just as we now have compulsory microchipping, I would be in favour of compulsory castration of male dogs not owned by a licensed breeder.

I’m with you BlueBelle. I’ve lived in this area for over 50 years, walked my dogs here for 47 of those years. We are edge of moorland, open countryside villages that now blend to form busy suburbs. My regular woodland, park and reservoir walks are now so busy that my young dog isn’t getting the opportunity to free run and mix with dogs in the way he needs.
The park has 4 vans of ‘professional dog walkers’ by 9.15. Each with 6-8 dogs, the van doors open, the dogs allowed to run out, barking, none on leads. My huge entire, over friendly, 18 month old lab could find himself in trouble with a pack of dogs who’ve been picked up from houses where the people are out at work, dogs who don’t know each other, an unstable pack.

Our council doesn’t cap professional dog walkers to 5 as others do, so we get the influx. Add to that the ‘status’ bully breeds, all too often with men who swagger about, their dog at the end of a long lead, pulling like a train.
I’ll stop ranting, sorry

Dogs have to be properly trained and socialised. So do children. It’s a parent’s responsibility to bring up their child to be a decent member of society rather than a feral pest with no respect for people or property. Likewise with dogs.

Children need to be socialised in order to be a part of human society - they are small humans.

Dogs are not - they are wild animals with no desire whatsoever to be socialised. And over and over again we see that they cannot be - they slobber all over people, jump up, knock people over (with risk of causing serious injury), defaecate indiscriminately, growl at people, bark incessantly - and every now and again they kill someone. In other words they behave like wild animals - can this be a surprise? They do not do socialising - there may be a veneer of socialisation, but underneath they are wild animals and totally unpredictable.

If, for some reason, people want to keep dogs, then let them keep them privately; out of the reach of others where they cannot cause problems to the rest of us.

Someone is going to leap in here and say that would be cruel as dogs need to be walked and to be out and about. Indeed so - it would be cruel. But, in my view, there is cruelty in keeping dogs at all - in trying to mould them into something they are not; wielding our relative power over them for our own purposes; trying to change their natures. What the heck is that about? I just do not get it - which is, fine, so be it. But the problem arises when the dogs cause problems to humankind. There is no other situation in which one human is allowed to do something to another that causes distress and danger to them and a blind eye is turned.

If I was walking through town and someone decided to jump on me and knock me over, or to spit all over me, or to wipe mud all over my clothes they would be in trouble, and rightly so. And yet someone can allow their dog to do that and ..... guess what? "He is just being friendly"

Dogs are dogs not surrogate humans. Why should society in general have to put up with their wild ways just to keep dog-owners happy?

I'd love to have another dog but my lifestyle doesn't allow it.

On Mumsnet the other day someone planning to get a puppy dachshund asked if it would be OK to leave it alone for the two days she has to go into work!

I understand your feelings Luckygirl3 I'm sad though that you don't see a positive side to owning a dog.
Our dogs provide us with companionship, love and a reason to go out every day. Many dog owners have only their pets to keep them company at home and they are a lifeline. There are the service dogs who care for their owners, rescue dogs who find people in dangerous circumstances. The list goes on.
You have your opinion and I know there are a lot of bad owners who make you feel this way, I'm just offering an alternative view point.

There are many many pluses to having a dog sodapop and I had the most beautiful dog who I loved, however when I had to change from part time work to full time she became very miserable so I made a sacrifice for her and found her a new home where the people were in all day She had eight years with me a year of being not so happy then six years with her new family who adored her as much as me
There has to be a lot of thought into owning any animal and
I m sad to say for many that isn’t the case I know dogs who are left all day alone and it breaks my heart

There has to be stronger regulation there are too many dogs and too many poor owners whether it’s over indulgence making them into ‘humans’ or neglect and cruelty

Breeders need a LOT more vetting as do buying and selling on social media

Before I retired, my dogs often came to work with me, to help support therapeutic work with children. One was a frequent visitor to a secure unit. Our dog training group made regular visits to a residential care home. We also entertained children from a psychiatric unit at our safe enclosed field. My big doodle was a calm, happy obedient girl, she was always one of the first to be chosen to be handles over agility by a teenager living on a ward in the psychiatric unit.
I don’t dispute some serious issues need addressing but, claiming no one should have dogs as pets - phew

I share your sadness sodapop. I’m saddened that my very intelligent canine companion who enriches my life so much and would give her life for me could be seen as an outcast that should be kept out of sight.

If a child wasn’t trained and socialised with its own kind it would grow up to be wild and feral. I have witnessed that for myself when working on social services cases.

So it is with dogs. If brought up in the same way you would bring up a child, with boundaries, they don’t jump or slobber over people, nor attack without reason. Sadly some people have such deeply entrenched hatred of dogs that they refuse to understand that. If they had the misfortune to lose their sight and were offered a guide dog as their sole means of getting out, would they turn it down on principle and remain lonely and housebound?

I've been really depressed recently and sticking to a routine and getting up and going out with my dog for a good walk, whatever the weather has kept me going and I am starting to feel a lot better

My DS works in A&E and says every single week of the year a child is brought in with a dog bite. Sometimes they have multiple cases per week. Not one type of breed is responsible he's seen horrendous injuries to a young child's face caused by a small dog. Never leave a toddler on their own in a room with a dog especially if they are sleeping or eating.

My son has recently had a dog through Service Dogs UK as he suffers terribly with PTSD.

They attend training sessions twice a week with the organisation and the change in him is so noticeable

They use rescue dogs from the Dog's Trust. 'Saving two lives at a time' is their motto

I am not blind to the reasons why people keep dogs and the positive aspects that there might be for some. But we are now in a highly distorted situation where the "rights" of people to own a dog override the rights of the rest of us to lead peaceful and safe lives.

Sometimes I think that I am more sympathetic to the needs of dogs than many of their owners are. Owners want them to fulfil various needs that they have - but dogs just want to be dogs.

We have stopped bear-baiting and circus performing animals - why? - because we could see that it is cruel to ask an animal to be something it is not, simply for our own pleasure.

I can see around me every day that what we have at present is not working. Every time I go for a walk there it all is: dogs straining at the leash, desperate to be allowed to be themselves; dogs barking and barking and barking out their frustration at being confined to the garden; dogs on the loose who are being a damn nuisance simply for being dogs - for being themselves.

It is a mess - and in the middle of this we have children killed by dogs - who are just being dogs.

We have gone so far down the unlicensed route now that to bring in licensing would result in thousands of dogs being turfed out to run feral, as their owners do not want to pay the fee.

Proper control will not come about until there are proper rules around responsibilities of dog owners - but this is all tainted by the British obsession with dogs - it will be very hard for any law-maker to get a grip on this without a massive backlash.

But what we have now is now working. If we want our children to be safe, and want adults to be able to go out and enjoy a walk, we need to find some way of regulating dog ownership.

With respect, there is a great deal of difference between changing our babies nappies and picking up dog poo in the street. This is once again putting dogs on a par with humans.
I think some dogs, assistance dogs for instance, are fantastic. It's the attitude of some owners that gets me. There must be something wrong with you and you can't be a nice person if you don't like dogs.

There's nothing odd about loving animals - they could teach most humans a thing or two about love, loyalty, devotion etc. Children benefit enormously from having a pet in the house - it teaches them how to care for another living creature, as well as responsibility, etc etc.

Kate1949

With respect, there is a great deal of difference between changing our babies nappies and picking up dog poo in the street. This is once again putting dogs on a par with humans.
I think some dogs, assistance dogs for instance, are fantastic. It's the attitude of some owners that gets me. There must be something wrong with you and you can't be a nice person if you don't like dogs.

No there isn't. I'd happily pick up dog poo any day over changing nappies! And I make no apologies whatsoever for choosing dogs over humans, especially the dog-hating brigade on here. If I had to choose between a human and a dog - outwith my absolute immediate family - then I'd be choosing the dog every single time. Animals are wonderful - this thread just confirms my feelings about many humans.