Another baby killed

Ok and please UNDERSTAND I m NOT a dog hater but do see the downside sometimes to all the perfect dogs that dog lovers only see

The other day we went for a sea dip leaving our clothes on the beach as we came out there is a male dog cocking it’s leg on my friends coat The owners are miles away ( too far to get their attention) and they are happily in deep conversation

GSM you have hit the nail, on the head when you quote ‘responsible dog owners’ BUT this thread is NOT about responsible dog owners it’s about IRRESPONSIBLE dog owners

Can’t everyone see the difference ?

jody our dog warden ceased existing years ago NOT everywhere is like where you live

It’s a great shame when irresponsible owners cause others to hate all dogs, but would some hate dogs anyway? I’m a responsible owner but I can’t imagine Lucky or Kate liking my well controlled dog. Some people just don’t like dogs. I get that. I don’t like some people.

BlueBelle

Ok and please UNDERSTAND I m NOT a dog hater but do see the downside sometimes to all the perfect dogs that dog lovers only see

The other day we went for a sea dip leaving our clothes on the beach as we came out there is a male dog cocking it’s leg on my friends coat The owners are miles away ( too far to get their attention) and they are happily in deep conversation

GSM you have hit the nail, on the head when you quote ‘responsible dog owners’ BUT this thread is NOT about responsible dog owners it’s about IRRESPONSIBLE dog owners

Can’t everyone see the difference ?

That really annoys me. The beach isn’t necessarily a safe place for dogs. We often get jellyfish on the beach: sadly deceased seal pups can take ages to rot away and touching them can make dogs very ill or even live seal pups are often injured by dogs because their owners have let the dogs run on ahead. Some beaches ask dog owners to keep their dogs in leads at nesting time to protect ground nesting birds and the wardens get so much abuse from dog owners. There are very few nasty dogs. We know this because we’re paranoid about our girl being attacked again so are always on the look out for aggressive dogs. We made some lovely new friends yesterday whilst walking our dog and sitting on the sofa last night with her resting her head on my arm made me feel sad that some people don’t experience the loving bond that we have with our dogs. We have to spell out lots of words because her understanding of so many words astounds us ( and she’s not from a breed renowned for it’s intelligence!).

Luckygirl3

Where have you been all your life?! They are everywhere round here. A walk in the woods is a pain in the neck - dogs are everywhere - uncontrolled. It is an obstacle course battling with one dog after another.

Luckygirl that made me smile (sorry) as I had a vision of you walking through the woods hurdling over all the dogs in your path ?

I can understand someone who has had a bad experience with a dog being fearful and yes, there are irresponsible dog owners whose dogs are out of control and those who have bought dogs during lockdown and now the poor dogs are left at home all day or otherwise abandoned.

However, I think dogs are great companions for many reasons.
Children should be taught to treat dogs with respect and a child should never, ever be left alone with a dog.

Thank you for pointing what is obvious out to me. I am aware everywhere is NOT like where I live. I was giving a comparison regarding my impression and the post by Luckygirl and the "dreadful" place she lives in, where daily accosting by dogs is the norm!!
I have already given an opinion about irresponsible dog owners further up the thread, you have probably missed that!
I have been on this earth (80) long enough to know the difference between responsible dog owners, irresponsible dog owners, dog lovers and dog haters.

That was to Bluebelle.

Can I ask Kate and Luckygirl , respectfully, what their opinion is of working dogs? ie Guide dogs both for blind and disabled people, who do a fantastic job, also drug seeking dogs, mountain rescue, sheep dogs, hospital visiting dogs and many more? Should these invaluable canines also be condemned?

You won’t get an answer Jaberwok. Yesterday I asked what would happen if someone who couldn’t stand dogs lost their sight and their only chance of getting out of the house and having company was to have a guide dog. Silence. These are people who strongly dislike all dogs and make the excuse of negative experiences. Even a puppy being carsick. Intelligent women.

Thanks for the sarcasm jody but this thread was NOT started to bin all dogs it was started to point out the rogue owners and rogue dogs which surely we both agree about don’t we ? and the ways forward to try and see what can be done to make sure these things don’t keep happening
Don’t we both agree I would have thought we did

Jaberwok I have already posted above what I think of assistance dogs.

Surely the whole point of assistance dogs is that they are highly and intensively trained.
Also, some dogs aren't the right fit for a particular person, and again that is thoroughly tested out before placing them.

The woman who lived next to my daughter was blind, and had an assistance dog for years, however the next one she had didnt work out, so she could just give it back with no repercussions.

Yes I remember you asking that question Gsm, and you are right, a stony silence! I guess my query will go the same way!! I do find it hard to believe that anyone could continually have such a bad experience with every dog they come across. But,there you go, who am I to know one way or the other.

As I said Jaberwok I posted above what I think of assistance dogs.
None of the experiences I have mentioned with dogs are untrue.

I haven't had a particularly bad time with dogs.
I like them, but a lot are so unruly these days; like maniacs, jumping up, knocking you about, and being over the top.

I rent remember dogs being like that when I was younger, although my nan had a succession of vicious dogs. (She was not known for the best training methods!)

I was terrified of that dog. It was like running the gauntlet with a wolf.

I do wish that all the dog lovers on this thread, would show some sympathy and real understanding for those of us who have been attacked and injured by dogs .

Saying it is not he dog's fault, it is the owners is pointless, it is the dog that attacks and injures other people, not the owner. It would also help if they could forward some suggestions of how dog attacks could be limited by ensuring they are not owned by people who do not train them properly and do not allow them to become a danger to other people.

Perhaps all potential dog owners should have to go through a training course before being given a license to own a dog - license the person and not the dog. It could be online and require an online test at the end. Then there could be a home visit by someone from an approved dog charity to see where the dog and family live and who comprises the family, then they could get a license to own a range of breeds and size of dogs that were considered sutiable for their family situaation. Effectively doing what most reputable dog rescue centres already do. The license should need to be shown when buying a dog. Compulsory dog chipping could contain info about the type of family the dog was suitable for.

I know that doesn't deal with dog farmers and people dodging the system, but that is a problem now. It could be an offence to own a dog, if you have not gone through all the approval and license systems.

Yes, it will cost the potential dog owner, but if you cannot afford the license you cannot afford to own a dog.

Bearing in mind the number of dogs in circulation I think you would need a ministerial department devoted to this system if it ever became law. People get dogs from all sorts of outlets so policing potential dog owners would be hideously expensive to the tax payer. Too many loop holes would make this idea totally impractical. I can remember , many moons ago, going to the P.O to buy my yearly dog licence and the good lady at the counter implying that I was a dying breed!! Soon afterwards they were abandoned. It just became impossible to enforce.

I don't see anything wrong with having to have a licence to own a dog - it used to be the norm.
At least then there should be a record of dog owners and anyone who suspects someone own what could be a potentially dangerous dog could be reported to the authorities.

Charging enough to cover the administration and to pay the costs of dog wardens shouldn't be out of reach of anyone who can afford to keep a dog.

X posts, different viewpoints, Jaberwok!

Sadly I just don’t think it’s feasible MOnica. There will always be irresponsible owners just as there will always be people who neglect and kill their children. The only logical way forward that I can see is compulsory castration of male dogs in the same way that microchipping is now mandatory, except for dogs owned by licensed breeders, and a ban on selling dogs (indeed all animals) on social media or through classified ads. I recognise that there will always be people who don’t comply but in time a reduction in the number of dogs should result along with a reduction in the outlets from which they may lawfully be obtained and an increase in the cost of buying them.

I don't see anything wrong with dog licences at all, the thing is , as happened in the past, responsible owners will buy one, irresponsible ones won't, and what would be the punishment for not? A fine? Again people just won't pay necessitating a court case, and what happens to the poor dog in question? Confiscation, destruction? rehoming, maybe? Micro chipping should certainly help, but again if somebody doesn't take the dog to a vet whose to know whether it's chipped or not. We had to take our spaniel to to a duty vet some time ago but no way did they check or even ask about her micro chip, so again it's not completely full proof.

What worries me most about this thread is how purblind and convinced dog owners are that everything is perfect in the dog owning world, all dogs are well trained, no dog owner is never careless and selfish. I also find the way they cheerfully dismiss any stories from anyone who has been attacked and injured by a dog as very unfortunate that such an event ever occurred, I mean ONLY 23 people are killed every year.

ONLY 23. It should not be any, and if 23 die, then every day hundreds of people are attacked by inadequately controlled or inadequately trained dogs and speaking as someone who sustained an injury when attacked by a dog. i do not give a toss whether dog or owner is most to blame. It doesn't change the injury I sustained.

In 2019 nearly 9,000 people needed hospital treatment after being attacked by dogs. Nearly 2,000 were children. Many will be scarred for life. Add to that those who are attacked but not badly enough to need hospital attention.

I am well aware that most dogs are owned and looked after by caring owners, but I would be much happier if the dog owners could also accept that there is a significant number of owners who aren't and their dogs frighten, intimidate and attack innocent adults and children

This is a significant problem and should not be dismissed the way it is by dog owners.

I am sure my scheme could be improved, but what is needed is for owning a dog not from a known home and not having gone through proper procedures made a criminal offence.

It is the same with any law, there will always be people who try to avoid obeying the law, If we were only to introduce laws when we were sure we could ensure 100% compliance we wouldn't have any laws at all!

I cannot see that an online course and test and home visit could be impossible. Look at the requirements and hoops to be jumped through to get a driving license or to get approval to be an electrician or drive an HGV. We managed with them and I am sure people brought up the same objections.

What worries me most about this thread is how purblind and convinced dog owners are that everything is perfect in the dog owning world, all dogs are well trained, no dog owner is never careless and selfish

I don't think that is a true statement; reading the thread there are some very responsible dog owners stating their views on here who also condemn irresponsible dog owners.