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I will just leave this here and duck for cover

(178 Posts)
Granny23 Wed 23-Mar-22 10:01:18

From today's National News Paper

"6 out of ten Scots believe the UK will not exist in its current form in 10 years’ time, according to a new poll which also puts backing for independence in the lead.

The latest survey, carried out by Ipsos, found support for Yes vote is at 50% compared to 43% for No, with 4% of voters remaining undecided.

Nearly half of people north of the Border also think the Union will not exist in five years’ time.

Across the UK overall, however, the proportion predicting the demise of the Union within the next decade has fallen slightly compared with early 2021 - from 56% to 50% in February this year.

Meanwhile, the poll also found the Scottish Government continues to attract more praise than the UK Government for its handling of the pandemic - both north of the Border and across the rest of the UK.
However, it highlighted that people in Scotland are the most pessimistic in the UK about the economic prospects in the coming months.

The Ipsos UK Knowledge panel surveyed more than 4000 people across the UK at the beginning of February,

“Scots remain more likely than those in England and Wales to say the UK will not exist in its current form for much longer,” the report said.

“As many as 61% of Scots say the UK will not exist in its current form in 10 years’ time, compared with 50% across the UK as a whole. 46% of Scots think it will not exist in 5 years’ time, compared with 33% across the UK as a whole.”
When it comes to views across the UK on whether Scotland should vote for independence, just over half of people in England and Wales say they would prefer it to stay part of the Union. However, the report notes views in Northern Ireland are less clear, with 42% saying they want Scotland to stay but 29% backing Scotland to leave the UK.

It also notes: “The Scottish Government continues to attract more praise than the UK Government for its handling of the pandemic, both among those in Scotland, and across the rest of the UK.
“Views of the Scottish Government are, unsurprisingly, most favourable in Scotland, where 59% say the Scottish Government has handled the pandemic well, compared with just 22% who say the same of the UK Government.”

The survey also found that slightly more people in England think the Scottish Government has handled the pandemic well, at 44% compared to 38%.

Across the UK, just 15% think the general economic condition of the UK will improve in the next 12 months, while 67% say it will get worse.

Expectations are even more pessimistic in Scotland, where 73% expect the UK’s economy to get worse in the next year.
“Meanwhile, although three in five Scots expect the demise of the UK within 10 years, those in England and Wales would still prefer Scotland to vote No in any second referendum.”

NoddingGanGan Tue 26-Apr-22 12:50:46

Anything not nothing. I need to learn to proof read.

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 12:53:57

They have a say in what happens in England when English MPs have no say in nothing north of the border.

SNP don't vote on purely English matters at Westminster.

You best take that issue up with the 6 Scottish Tories, the 4 Lib Dems and the Labour guy, who do.

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 12:54:58

NoddingGanGan

Anything not nothing. I need to learn to proof read.

And fact check.

pce612 Tue 26-Apr-22 13:03:44

Just because people thought that the Scottish government did better with the Covid situation, it doesn't mean that they want or support the SNPs vision for an independant Scotland.
I am English but have lived in Scotland for 48 years.
No one has said how an independant Scotland would be funded, what would happen to our health service, the armed forces etc.
In my experience, the general population don't realise how much money is pumped into Scotland by central government.
The population of Scotland is approximately 2 million less than that of London. We don't have the population to self fund - the whiskey and tourist industries can't do it all.
Scotland can't become carbon neutral if they continue oil and gas extraction - that would be contradictory, besides which the companies which own the fields are mostly foreign.

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 13:11:15

The fact that you call it "whiskey" makes me slightly wary of your other pronouncements.

Never mind. As well as the water of life and the tourists, we have finance, space industries, electronics, high end food, agriculture, software, gaming, the arts.... and that's all without googling smile

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 13:11:42

Oh. Renewables.

Forgot renewables.

pce612 Tue 26-Apr-22 13:14:32

Whisky, I'm not Irish.....

NanaLiz Tue 26-Apr-22 13:33:05

I agree with you. Although I believe that all countries should have the right to choose - it's the rationale ( or lack of ) behind it. I too have many Scottish friends (many veterens/serving members of HM forces )- ironically, none that support Nicola Sturgeon .They think she is on one big power trip - even stating that she never made a relevant decision regarding the Pandemic by herself - she waited until days after BJ had made the decisions for England - and followed suit - made a slight variation to show her clout. All she did afterwards was extend face masks - which tbh was the sensible thing to do. Everyone is sick of it - we should have learned throughout the last two years to pull together to help one another. Why oh why can't people acknowledge the fact like him or loathe him, Boris has had everything thrown at him in the past 2 years - like no other PM in our history - and he has led us through it and we should be glad to be alive!! NO PM would have come out of this unscathed!
The constant condemnation, criticism, complaining is not helping any of us and is a truly awful example to our children and grandchildren.

Granny23 Tue 26-Apr-22 13:33:30

I'm amazed that there are intelligent people who still believe that Scotland is subsidised by England via the Barnett Formula. Those living in Scotland pay their taxes direct to the British Exchequer. That includes not only Income Tax but also VAT, revenue on Cigarettes, Alcohol, petrol & diesel, Death Duties, Corporation Tax et al. No account is taken of the amount sent to the exchequer in this way, when deciding how much to return to Scotland via the Barnett Formula. Which is based on a population based percentage of the total UK expenditure on the services/responsibilities which are devolved to the Scottish and Welsh Parliaments.

BTW if a large company is headquartered in London but operates throughout the UK, then its taxes/profits/revenues, etc. are all attributed to the English or more narrowly the London economy regardless of where in the UK these were created. This gives a skewed picture of the contributions from not only Scotland and Wales but also the other English Regions.

Aveline Tue 26-Apr-22 13:37:04

I am amazed that there are intelligent people that believe the guff that SNP churns out!

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 13:39:16

I think what amazes me Granny23 is that people think wanting independence is the same as "supporting Nicola Sturgeon". Or that Sturgeon did things in Scotland just to be different to England. Just because they want to believe that but not because they look anything up, or actually live here. We're not 12 years old.

Unlike the whisky. wink

Soniah Tue 26-Apr-22 13:43:01

Wales is pretty good too, I think Cornwall, Scotland and Wales should form a Union. If Scotland get independence I'm off there, mind you I am half Scot and love the country anyway

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 13:46:34

Just listening to the Alistair Campbell/Rory Stewart podcast. Stewart missing the point entirely, and saying that thinking Scotland and England are different countries is insane.

Blotted your copybook there, laddie.

SuRu Tue 26-Apr-22 13:48:51

wheniwasyourage, I don't think it's quite as simple as that. The SNP claim that the Scots pay £840. less per year in taxes and other charges than those in Tory run England. Yet, the Scots still benefit from free prescriptions, no university fees and free social care. Something isn't adding up.
My husband, a Scot, believes that the Scots won't vote for Independence because they can count.

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 13:54:32

Best buy your husband, the Scot, a calculator.

www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/scots-pay-less-taxes-and-charges-than-elsewhere-in-uk-snp-say/ar-AASo7S5?msclkid=549f3c26c55f11ec8ffc8b5a8f53c8ed

Best regards, a Scot who is definitely good at counting.

Wheniwasyourage Tue 26-Apr-22 13:57:50

It depends on who you are, SuRu. I have family members who pay more in income tax than they would anywhere else in the UK because of their income, and not this strange-sounding £840 less (facts and figures please). Read Granny23's post of 13:33:30 for a list of some other taxes we pay.

While of course anyone is free to comment on anything to do with Scotland or any other country, a bit more fact-checking and a bit less of regurgitating opinions from the gutter press people who know nothing about the subject would be a good idea. This constant suggestion that those in England are subsidising the free prescriptions etc that we pay for ourselves is getting a bit tedious.

rubysong Tue 26-Apr-22 14:06:30

UK national debt is £2.3 trillion. How much of that will the Scots take over if they get independence?

SuRu Tue 26-Apr-22 14:08:42

This is the breakdown of how the Barnet formula is distributed per head throughout the UK. England £9,296. (97%), Scotland £11,242. (117.3%), Wales £10,656. (111.2%), Northern Ireland £11590. (120.9%). So England which contributes most in terms of taxation, receives least per head.

Casdon Tue 26-Apr-22 14:17:02

I think you need to read this to get a full understanding of how the Barnett formula works and what the pros and cons are SuRu. It’s by no means a straightforward process, and there are exceptions and pitfalls aplenty.
www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/barnett-formula

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 14:21:53

SuRu's numbers are the public spending per head, calculated in 2020.

Which is not the same as the Barnet formula.

Zonne Tue 26-Apr-22 14:28:08

NoddingGanGan

As an Englishwoman I would welcome Scottish independence. Sick of them getting so much free that we don't and the fact that they have a say in what happens in England when English MPs have no say in nothing north of the border. That's not to say I hate Scotland or Scottish people en masse, far from it, just fed up of losing out to them left, right and centre.

Here are all the reserved powers, ie the issues that English MPs very definitely have a say in. Or even, given the numbers, control over. You will see that their are far more reserved powers than devolved ones.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devolved,_reserved_and_excepted_matters

Granny23 Tue 26-Apr-22 14:46:54

He is also NOT an expert in Scottish History. He has no formal education, nor qualifications in the subject. He is constantly criticised by the actual prominent Historians and Professors for talking mince in his pronouncements. These experts are also hugely critical of the Television channels who constantly use Oliver as the 'go to' celebrity when they need someone to comment, when there are many, more authoritative, figures who could be invited instead.

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 14:51:11

Not sure where that came from but I do agree with you grin

MaggsMcG Tue 26-Apr-22 15:04:49

It's already gone in all but name. The Scots and Welsh don't pay for things the English do. Let them take their inependence but NO MORE handouts from Westminster they stand on their own, good luck. They can rejoin the ECM let them subsidise their freebies.

volver Tue 26-Apr-22 15:29:50

Och, I'm so tired....

What's the ECM?