I will just leave this here and duck for cover

Hmm, it's a strange coincidence but I was watching the Party Political Broadcast for the SNP just last night. It was a total embarrassment and not one thing about what they were planning to do, to get this country (Scotland) out of the mess we are in. This is all I will say on the matter.

Petera the article I referred to about who should vote talked about NOT giving the vote to people born in Scotland (i.e. who I would call Scottish) but who live outside of Scotland at the time of the election - could be said if you pick the right moment in time independence can be gained. The article claims there are around 750,000 Scots living in other parts of the UK that wouod likely vote NO and that could tip the overall vote. So this is the world we live in.

Good luck to the Scots if they can get a more 'competent government' than the British government ... bearing in mind this includes the likes of Blair and Brown.

HolySox So can someone please define 'Scotland' and hence who should it belong to.

It doesn't 'belong' to anyone it's about competent governance which is why it is the people who actually live there who should make the decision.

I was born there of parents who were born there of grandparents who were mostly born there. But I left over 40 years ago and have lived in many different countries since. Do I have an opinion? Yes. Would I like to be able to vote? Yes. Should I be able to vote? No. That’s just something I need to accept.

And, as someone mentioned the Brexit vote, I also agree with the fact that I didn’t have a vote then as I was living in Belgium. But the parallels are not quite accurate – I was in serious danger of not just losing my job due to the Brexit vote, but also losing my occupational pension, and there were many others in the same position.

www.thenational.scot/news/20023235.alba-conference-alex-salmond-put-spotlight-energy/
Appears Alec Salmond is aware of the value of Scotland's energy potential. So 8% of the UK want 32% of the land mass is just greedy and selfish.

Tell you what, let's define Scotland as an area of land being 8% of the UK, likely the lowlands between Glasgow and Edinburgh, where the mojority of the 8% live, but the UK retain the highlands. Afterall they're uninhabitable and uneconomic...

Yes, of course, I'm the one being silly. Not Holysox. Sorry. ?

Granny23 I worked on renewables back in the eighties, I'm a believer

Anyway, for anybody interested in who Scotland belongs to, here's a summary. Now this is something we need to sort out.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-47963208

Suilven looks beautiful Volver but unfortnately I'm sure 'they' would be happy to put a windfarm on the smaller hills surrounding it, as they do in the Pennines.

Bigger challenge - bore a massive hole straight through the mountain and house the turbines inside.

I hope they don't do any of this but with the 'Climate Change' lobby nothing will be sacred.

By the way, remember seeing a huge radio transmitter mast on top of an alpine peak in Germany that was more rugged than this mountain!

Volver now you are just being silly. No one is planning to put wind farm on the top of mountains. Scotland has a plethora of lower hill sides, previously used only for sheep and rambling - now many of these uplands have profitable wind farms.

I live at the foot of the Ochils and there are wind farms, which you cannot see looking from the South. Nonetheless, all the wee towns and villages in the Hillfoots benefit from a fund, financed by the Wind Farms which gives grants large and small to local Community Groups, to support services e,g playgroups, OAP groups, a junior orchestra, etc. and contribute to town/village enhancements e,g, parks, community gardens, cycle paths, nature walks, etc.

All this while producing green electricity and protecting the environment. - what's not to like?

Casdon

Are you saying that somebody who was born there but left Scotland 30 or 40 years ago should have say in the future of the country in the UK Holysox? I don’t understand why, only those who live there will experience the consequences of whatever decision they make, surely?

If Scotland doesn't belong to the 'Scottish' then how do you define what Scotland is? Who has the right to say it should no longer be part of the UK? We all laughed at Citizen Smith in the 1970's when he declared "Freedom for Tooting" but I guess it's the same principle. So if I buy my Scottish cottage you are happy that I should have the right to decide on the future of Scotland? Yet my friend who was born and raised in Scotland, from a long line of Scots but now lives in England has no say? Maybe we would view things differently if we had Scottish nationality and Scottish passports? Maybe that should be a first step. Let people apply for Scottish citizenship by birth or residence.

HolySox

Volver Much of Scotland 'uneconomic'? What about as renewable energy? Wind power, hydro power/energy storage, tidal power... 32% of our land mass means 32% of our renewable energy!

Here's Suilven. Good luck installing a wind turbine or solar panel up there. Give me a shout when you're going to have a go, I'll come and watch.

Are you saying that somebody who was born there but left Scotland 30 or 40 years ago should have say in the future of the country in the UK Holysox? I don’t understand why, only those who live there will experience the consequences of whatever decision they make, surely?

Volver Much of Scotland 'uneconomic'? What about as renewable energy? Wind power, hydro power/energy storage, tidal power... 32% of our land mass means 32% of our renewable energy!

Just reading that eligibility to vote in the next referendum is likely based on being resident and over 16 years of age:

www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/politics/scottish-politics/2425510/who-should-be-eligible-to-vote-in-a-second-scottish-independence-referendum-and-what-should-the-question-be/

Over 16? Tick!

Resident in Scotland? ... off to buy my cottage in Scotland that will become my main residence come the next referendum. Well, no I won't, lovely as Scotland is, but maybe you get my point. Who is Scottish! It seems my friend who was born and raised in Scotland but moved to England in their twenties can't have a say. So can someone please define 'Scotland' and hence who should it belong to.
Who remembers "Freedom for Tooting"!

Seems strange that there are Scots on here who object to the policies of the SNP that help people on lower incomes an families with children..
The Baby box
Scottish childrens payment
FREE bus travel for young people up to age 22
Free uni tuition
£10000 A YEAR bursaries for nurses
1p OFF the tax on the basic level
and much more beside.We must assume our "unionist" scots would be happier with Bojo's attitude to the poor ...starve them into submission ...or freeze them
I'll be the first to say I dont think the SNP are perfect...far from it ,EVERY government should be prepared for criticism and my MP (SNP) gets my fair share of moans BUT the SNP are just the vehicle to get us where we need to be .IN CONTROL OF OUR OWN AFFAIRS.
A government that has compassion ,who works FOR Scotland and not against it .Thats why they'll get my vote until we get Independence .Then hopefully we might get other Scottish parties who will work for us too and not be tethered to WM .Look back at the pillaging of India 46 TRILLION WM stole from them ,all the while telling the world India was too poor and too stupid to run its own affairs..thats exactly how they treat us ...not for much longer I hope .

Love it Dickens! ?

From Oz I suppose we over here are all the sizes of postage stamps!

Urmstongran

Thanks for the explanation volver. Yes it seems therefore that the SNP must be very popular. Fair enough.

Oh the ‘Coast’ guy! I recognise him. Thanks for the photo.
I assume therefore he’s a unionist??

... I watched the "Coast" guy for ages without having a clue who he was.

My OH used to shout from the sitting room "that guy with the long hair is wandering around the coast again, do you want to watch?"

nanna8

It does seem a bit strange that such a small country should split off into bits. No one’s economy is going to do very well after Covid etc. except maybe the Americans with all their interests in weapons.

I assume you are English.

But not twice.

I have a house in Scotland and one in England and can choose whereI vote, but only once per election.
So not quite right Volver

I understand your logic about another referendum volver. It’s why my 90y old stepfather born in the Highlands didn’t get a vote in the last one because he’s lived in Manchester for 60y. It’s also why I ignored those people from the UK who had chosen to live in Europe (many in France) who moaned they were denied a vote on Brexit.

HolySox

Trying to get my head around why people want Scottish independence.

I know there is racists - some 'Scots' simply loathe 'Sassanachs'. But who is 'Scottish', particularly in modern cosmopolitan Britain. Who would get to vote on independence? People born in Soctland? People descended from a 'Scottish' person? Wasn't the last referendum based on people having a Scottish address? So no vote for 'Scottish' people (i.e. born in Scotland) but have moved south of the border? So if a few 100,000 people from south of the border get themselves a Scottish address then that could swing the vote. Maybe I'll buy a holiday cottage in Scotland...

Scotland constitutes 32% of the UK land mass but only 8% of the population so maybe the 'Scots', whoever they might be, think they will be better off simply by having more real estate. When you think about it 1/20th of our population could vote to claim nearly 1/3 of the land. But that's democracy, apparently.

Personally, I think the UK is stronger as a union. 'Scots' have contributed greatly to the UK. For instance aren't Blair and Brown both Scottish? Volver talks about Scottish knowledge economy but I think this is intertwined as part of the UK knowledge economy as a whole - stronger together.

Again, personally I see myself as 'British' rather than 'English' so I would feel it a shame to lose the union. But being South of the border my voice doesn't count. Perhaps I should buy that holiday cottage in Scotland...

There are most certainly people in Scotland who hate the English Holysox. I'm delighted to say I've never met any, but I'm sure they exist. (did you know that Sassanach is just Scots Gaelic for English?)

If its the same as last time, people who have committed to Scotland will get the vote. So somebody who was born in Scotland but has lived in England for 50 years? Sorry, no.

A significant proportion of the land in Scotland is of course uninhabitable and not economically productive, but don't worry, we'll take it off your hands. Its awfu' bonnie and we like looking at it.

As somebody who personally has worked in the knowledge economy, you'll just have to believe me that it will survive just fine without the rest of the UK. Just like you'll have to survive without our admirable politicians.

Buy your holiday cottage in Scotland, by all means. You'll be very welcome. But don't think it'll mean you get a vote here. We're no as green as we're cabbage looking.

Yes, you might have declining educational standards, but you’ve got free university places, even for people like my niece who moved up to Scotland just so she could benefit from one of them. You might have the highest drug deaths in Europe, but you’ve got free prescriptions.

just because La Sturgeon constantly tells you she's doing a great job does not make it true. The SNP has made a mess of everything it touches - the continuing ferry fiasco is just one example of its fiscal incompetence but as well as the economy I could add declining education standards and the highest drug deaths in Europe. And that's just for starters.

All it needs is sufficient support. So if the next referendum does it then that’s it settled. I have thus déjà vu feeling.

We sometimes get parents complaining they don’t like something at school. The option to change is in their hands, but do they change schools?
No, school’s at a convenient distance. It’s easy for Grandma to pick up the children. Robbie loves it, Cassandra would miss all her friends. If only you could sort Robyn’s problems to our satisfaction . . .

Trying to get my head around why people want Scottish independence.

I know there is racists - some 'Scots' simply loathe 'Sassanachs'. But who is 'Scottish', particularly in modern cosmopolitan Britain. Who would get to vote on independence? People born in Soctland? People descended from a 'Scottish' person? Wasn't the last referendum based on people having a Scottish address? So no vote for 'Scottish' people (i.e. born in Scotland) but have moved south of the border? So if a few 100,000 people from south of the border get themselves a Scottish address then that could swing the vote. Maybe I'll buy a holiday cottage in Scotland...

Scotland constitutes 32% of the UK land mass but only 8% of the population so maybe the 'Scots', whoever they might be, think they will be better off simply by having more real estate. When you think about it 1/20th of our population could vote to claim nearly 1/3 of the land. But that's democracy, apparently.

Personally, I think the UK is stronger as a union. 'Scots' have contributed greatly to the UK. For instance aren't Blair and Brown both Scottish? Volver talks about Scottish knowledge economy but I think this is intertwined as part of the UK knowledge economy as a whole - stronger together.

Again, personally I see myself as 'British' rather than 'English' so I would feel it a shame to lose the union. But being South of the border my voice doesn't count. Perhaps I should buy that holiday cottage in Scotland...