o that this too too solid flesh should melt.....

I dont like thin men.

I think the media as a whole is struggling to make up its mind! On the one hand people (especially women) are encouraged to ‘celebrate their curves’ despite the fact that many of these ‘curves’ would almost certainly put them into the morbidly obese category. ‘Fat shaming’ is a no no and just not politically correct! On the other, we are warned about the dangers of obesity by well meaning (and correct) ‘experts’. Whom do we believe? Which path do we take? It is, I suppose, a matter of individual taste and choice. However in a society where healthcare is at a premium and our collapsing NHS has so much on its plate, it seems hardly fair to indulge personal taste above the greater good. Smokers, after all get constantly castigated for it! Perhaps we should focus more on a healthy weight which can be maintained with minimum effort simply by being sensible and realistic in our choices. In regard to the question of display mannequins, whilst they should not be the leggy ultra skinny models of yore, neither should they be obese and with pot bellies (warnings about visceral fat around the vital organs immediately come to mind). They should reflect an average healthy size, one that can be aspired to if not already achieved. To sanction obesity by accepting it as the norm is to completely ignore the message our beleaguered health service is trying so hard to get through and racking up ill health for many people as well as the absolutely enormous amounts of money needed to treat perfectly avoidable illnesses like Type 2 diabetes. At a time when there is so much more to do with the cash such as improvements to cancer diagnosis and care (although many cancers are caused by obesity), it is a message society should be taking seriously.

Don't forget the drink culture,too.
Lots of tipplers in these parts.

LisaP

Chestnut

Mannequins and models should be a normal weight, neither extremely thin and definitely not obese. It is very wrong to show either as they are not healthy. I don't think they have ever catered for normal sized people, it would be a delight to one day see a mannequin that looks like a person of healthy weight.

What is considered to be 'normal weight' or healthy weight'? How do you know that a larger person is not healthy? How do you know that a very thin person is not healthy?

I was referring to mannequins and models. Most are unrealistically stick thin. Then I've seen 'fat' mannequins which represent someone overweight, but rarely mannequins which are in between, i.e. neither thin or fat.

Given that two-thirds of UK adults are overweight or obese, "average" and "normal" weights are no longer healthy weights. We have totally normalised being overweight - and in children too, which is a health time bomb that is acknowledged but no plans to address it. I get frustrated that I can't find clothes in my size - I am a healthy weight for my (just under average) height and yet I found myself buying 2XS tops at Primark.

Amalegra - Good post and I agree entirely. Do not celebrate obesity and normalise it as it is not healthy. Back in the day we would have been horrified at the number of obese people walking around today. I'm afraid the supermarkets are largely to blame. They have endless aisles full of processed sugary fatty foods so it's no wonder people are filling up their trolleys with unsuitable things. We also have a fast food takeaway industry where cheap calorific food is bought on a massive scale. Get rid of all the bad food and the obesity problem would be solved. I wish there were supermarkets that sold only healthy stuff!

Chestnut
Couldn’t agree more. Some people are hugely overweight and it is now seen as normal. It’s not. It’s unhealthy and will put a huge strain on our already over burdened heath service in the years ahead.

I'm with Doodledog.

I can see the way this is heading...

Our local George at Asda now has 'curvy' mannequins in the female section.

Online clothing shops (Very, JD Williams) also have 'curvy' models.

It worries me that young girls are being told to embrace their curves. If they are so overweight at such a young age, how big are they going to be when they get to 40?

I was slim in my 20's but now, in my 60's, I am a size 18/20. I know I need to lose weight but it is so easy these to go out and see someone bigger than me. It kind of lulls people into a false sense of security.

I have also noticed that vanity sizing seems to be the norm these days. I bought a size 16 top the other day that was plenty big enough. I am easily a size 18. It wasn't just the style that made it looser. When I was young I was an M&S size 12. I think that would be the equivalent to a size 8 these days.

As long as I can remember there have been clothes shops in Denmark that specialised in "large sizes" and had mannequins that matched the sizes ther male and female customers were expected to be.

However none of the mannequins had beer bellies or other signs that they were obese or unhealthy.

In the nineties much was made of the very thin models used in adverts and catalogues as these were felt to be one of the hidden causes of anorexia in teenagers .

Firms are more careful today to choose models of all sizes, shapes, ages and skin colour to avoid being regarded as agist, racist etc. etc.

This should, I think, be the way forward.

I think it can be quite useful if only shops can show items on a range of models, so that we get a better idea of how it might look on us. Not sure how sizes that would probably equate to folk being morbidly obese should be shown though: normalise it isn't wise but omitting them and , by default, excluding/shaming isn't good either. Maybe they could allow folk to click on a photo of the size they want to see, so that the very small and very large sizes don't automatically pop up and make folk think any size is ok and healthy( I'm generalising, without offending anyone hopefully)
Shop mannequins should probably be a medium healthy weight, but could maybe include more that represent older men/women?
I'm sure sizes must have grown! I was a 12 then 14 then 16, gradually increasing from the age of 14 to about 55. I think my young 12 would now need an 8 and my current 16 ( at age 66) would have been 20/22 years ago!

online shops not only shops

I've never seen obese mannequins but usually the only men's shops I go in nowadays are for younger men [for my son]
Some clothes retailers eg I think Scarlet and Jo, do show clothes on different sized models, because some cuts and styles look different on diffent sized and shaped bodies. They will say on a photo Millie here is 5'7" and a size 18, or Molly is 6'2 and a size 28 so you can see a bit more what the clothes look like on real women
for sure condemning big women into wearing frumpy ill fitting clothes isn't going to encourage them to get slim and fit, one thing that puts some women off from exercising in public is the thought that they will feel judged wearing lycra
It's interesting to see old films featuring ordinary women, so not film stars, most of those up to a certain age are a lot slimmer than average, as they get older yes they do put weight on and yes there alwys have been obese and morbidly obese women [queen victoria in her later years] but also ordinary women, but they were conspicuous because they were rare
Recently read how teenager are getting too big for school classrooms, not fat just big. Better nutrition from childhood I guess. Looking at court cases in my family history where they give heights and descriptions, [adult working-class males ] were so much shorter in general in Victorian times, free school meals were brought in because so many men were too short to join the army. Emily Bronte's height of 5'7" was remarked on as being very tall, but my daughter is that tall and not remarkable at all
Think this sort of record is of more use than looking at surviving clothes, as it's been noted that clothes were passed down or passed on and if the clothes were smaller than average then less likely to be passed on

Here's one example of an overweight mannequin. This very subject is discussed here:
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-10395397/Do-plus-size-shop-mannequins-send-dangerous-message-women.html

I do object when obese women are described as 'big' instead of fat or obese, i.e. 'she's a big girl' I am big (tall and well built) but have never been fat or obese. So it's an insult to women who are actually just larger than normal women!

The mannequin looks fine to me.
Not model sized, but I wouldn't say grossly overweight.

MissAdventure, you have become so used to seeing overweight people you think this is okay, when it really isn't. They have proved that constantly seeing overweight people really does create a new 'normal' in our heads because it's what we see around us.

She is carrying massive amounts of fat around her organs which puts pressure on them. The other model by comparison looks like someone who eats little and exercises a lot, so probably not very realistic! Where is the model in the middle of these two?

It’s always extremes, isn’t it? I am average height and medium size (plumper than I would like) but this is the sizing that is always overlooked. Chestnut, I see where you are coming from but I always like the term statuesque or Amazonian to describe the large but healthy lady. It is an attractive look.

WHY?

I think that saying a woman is 'big' rather than fat is an insult to those who are tall and well built is insulting in itself.

I have a thyroid disorder and have gained weight over the last couple of years. Lockdown didn't help, either. I am trying to lose the weight, but when your metabolism changes radically it is very difficult to do.

I feel awful about it, and my self-esteem is low enough without seeing comments like that.

I don't get your drift, Doodledog, but I guess it all depends on what we read into words. Sorry to hear you've gained weight from an underactive thyroid. I also have that and did gain weight for a while, but the thyroxine will sort you out so don't worry. They will find the correct dosage.

Ruebenesque. (Probably spelt wrong)

Ruebenesque.
Think that's it.