Another bastion bites the dust?

Casdon

StarDreamer

Surely what I post cannot be mansplaining because there is no intention on my part to treat anyone with disdain.

Isn’t the point about mansplaining that it’s innate, you don’t have to intend to do it to do it anyway?

I don't know.

When you write "innate" are you meaning as in by having a Y chromosome or do you mean social conditionng?

For example, I went to coeducational schools, both primary and secondary.

If some books had to be carried anywhere, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

When it came to getting the crates of milk, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

Girls did not do cross country running.

Et cetera, et cetera.

So, that was the way it was, Nobody questioned it. Nobody said "Why don't the girls take a turn getting the milk?" I suppose it could be said that we were conditioned that girls were weaker and could not do physical things.

Actually, just thought. Can someone who went to an all girls secondary school say who got the crates of milk and so on please?

Is it the case that girls who went to coeducational schools were conditioned by the system to regard themselves as weak and helpless?

Well said - the Middle East need centuries to catch up though. Women need to stand up for one another / there is a special place in hell for those women who don’t support other women

It is not just in schools we are conditioned to think we are the weak ones that need looking after. Just take a man is expected to give up their seat to a woman rather than everyone should give up their seat so someone who needs it more than they do.

Coursework/controlled assessment benefits boys too. There is still a higher percentage of boys with special needs e.g. ADHD, ASD, Dyslexia.

Kate1949

I feel rather sorry for men these days. My lovely nephew was told by a female colleague during a discussion 'As a white heterosexual male, your opinion is irrelevant.'

Classic example of female making totally wrong assumption that "equality" with men means being just as biased, bullying uncaring and threatening, also just as drunk, vulgar rude aggressive I could go on! Women need to rethink equality, it's about same chances opportunities respect and accomodation of the differences too. Not ALL men are oiks! Wakey wakey ladies, were better than the lowest common denominator, men have lots to share with us as we with them, we exist together I harmony not competing for the rotter of the year award!!

StarDreamer

Casdon

StarDreamer

Surely what I post cannot be mansplaining because there is no intention on my part to treat anyone with disdain.

Isn’t the point about mansplaining that it’s innate, you don’t have to intend to do it to do it anyway?

I don't know.

When you write "innate" are you meaning as in by having a Y chromosome or do you mean social conditionng?

For example, I went to coeducational schools, both primary and secondary.

If some books had to be carried anywhere, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

When it came to getting the crates of milk, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

Girls did not do cross country running.

Et cetera, et cetera.

So, that was the way it was, Nobody questioned it. Nobody said "Why don't the girls take a turn getting the milk?" I suppose it could be said that we were conditioned that girls were weaker and could not do physical things.

Actually, just thought. Can someone who went to an all girls secondary school say who got the crates of milk and so on please?

Is it the case that girls who went to coeducational schools were conditioned by the system to regard themselves as weak and helpless?

I mean social conditioning. Some men don’t realise that the way they explain things to women is demeaning the woman’s intelligence. It’s innate because it’s part of their understanding of how the world works and their place within it.

I know that with hindsight it is obvious, but it only occurred to me recently that as there were an equal number of boys and girls in the cohorts, that the 11+ was really two contests, one of girls and one of boys, even in a coeducational area. So some girls might have not got to grammar school even if they got a better mark in the 11+ exam than some boys who did go to grammar school.

My little DS was ceaselessly bullied and physically attacked by a horrid little female brat at junior school , when I matched into headmaster's office and told him in no uncertain terms that his uncle a police sergeant would be visiting if they didn't sort this out, he sniggeres and thought it "funny" that DS "let" a girl bully HIM!!!! I flipped it to him and asked if it would also be "funny" if a boy pinched scratched punched and tore the shirt then tried to strangle a girl?!?! Case rested and I spent next 20 minutes educating'archie' on balance fairness andcommon decency. Needless to say he shrank almost under his desk by the time I sauntered out!

Knittingnovice many subjects have thankfully long since dropped coursework (including Maths and English). Also, English is from memory with the open book idea also dropped since 2017 (or earlier?).

Well my Dearest departed husband RIP was different ,, I was his equal and I was treated with the most respect any women could wish for ...A good part of our life we worked together too under stressful conditions. He was a complete soul mate and friend and he understood my fears and helped me over come them .. And he was a Greek Cypriot ....

But if men are the weaker sex, surely they need more love and attention nowadays.

StarDreamer

I know that with hindsight it is obvious, but it only occurred to me recently that as there were an equal number of boys and girls in the cohorts, that the 11+ was really two contests, one of girls and one of boys, even in a coeducational area. So some girls might have not got to grammar school even if they got a better mark in the 11+ exam than some boys who did go to grammar school.

It wasn't like that. Many grammar schools were originally set up as charitable foundations - for boys. Historically, there were more places for boys than girls, so in some areas boys got into grammar school with lower marks than girls.

StarDreamer

Casdon

StarDreamer

Surely what I post cannot be mansplaining because there is no intention on my part to treat anyone with disdain.

Isn’t the point about mansplaining that it’s innate, you don’t have to intend to do it to do it anyway?

I don't know.

When you write "innate" are you meaning as in by having a Y chromosome or do you mean social conditionng?

For example, I went to coeducational schools, both primary and secondary.

If some books had to be carried anywhere, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

When it came to getting the crates of milk, the boys had to do it, not the girls.

Girls did not do cross country running.

Et cetera, et cetera.

So, that was the way it was, Nobody questioned it. Nobody said "Why don't the girls take a turn getting the milk?" I suppose it could be said that we were conditioned that girls were weaker and could not do physical things.

Actually, just thought. Can someone who went to an all girls secondary school say who got the crates of milk and so on please?

Is it the case that girls who went to coeducational schools were conditioned by the system to regard themselves as weak and helpless?

Yes that is probably how it was , but no longer! Especially in primary schools.
Girls do cross country, learn cricket and football and play tag rugby.

Love it. Volver

Kryptonite

Knittingnovice many subjects have thankfully long since dropped coursework (including Maths and English). Also, English is from memory with the open book idea also dropped since 2017 (or earlier?).

My English Lit A Levels were done without the books. Three X three hour exams for one subject. The killer exam was 3 hours and required FOUR essays. All without the texts in front of us.

It was horrible.

StarDreamer

I know that with hindsight it is obvious, but it only occurred to me recently that as there were an equal number of boys and girls in the cohorts, that the 11+ was really two contests, one of girls and one of boys, even in a coeducational area. So some girls might have not got to grammar school even if they got a better mark in the 11+ exam than some boys who did go to grammar school.

Girls had to achieve 30% higher in the 11+ than boys. It was positive discrimination in favour of boys.

I went to girls-only schools for both junior and senior education. I don’t know who “got the crates of milk and so on”, but it wasn’t us. Probably domestic staff. We played netball, lacrosse, rounders and tennis, not rugby or football. We learnt Latin and chemistry, but for physics we had to go to the boys’ school.

My granddaughter, now 10, is also at an all-girls school. They play football, which she quite enjoys.

I did A level English like Gagajo, without the texts. I didn’t find it horrible - I loved it!

Completely not true! The government CHANGED GCSEs to NOT include coursework because it "benefitted girls" who work harder and are prepared to redraft workand put boys at "disadvantage".. They changed it some years ago and reduced coursework to 0% in most subjects (maths, English and science included) to benefit boys, but guess what? Girls still outperform boys. I've been teaching since 1999 and when I started, GCSEs were 40% coursework. This was fairer because it showed examiners what students could do throughout the year as well as what they could do in a couple of hours under exam conditions. It also benefitted SEND students. Exams now are 0% coursework and geared towards boys. But girls are still superior. If girls were doing worse than boys, exams would NEVER be changed. We live in a man's world.

Yes! Out of all my friends/peers who were supposed to be going to the grammar school, only one girl got in, but all the boys did.

Jackiest

It is not just in schools we are conditioned to think we are the weak ones that need looking after. Just take a man is expected to give up their seat to a woman rather than everyone should give up their seat so someone who needs it more than they do.

it would be quite an improvement if anyone would glance around and be willing to let someone who is struggling sit down.
very rarely happens now.
as to the long ago man standing up for woman thing, i don't see that as implying women are weaker; but the fact is no man is pregnant, a woman might be, and it benefits all society to assist that woman to a healthy outcome.

welbeck

Jackiest

It is not just in schools we are conditioned to think we are the weak ones that need looking after. Just take a man is expected to give up their seat to a woman rather than everyone should give up their seat so someone who needs it more than they do.

it would be quite an improvement if anyone would glance around and be willing to let someone who is struggling sit down.
very rarely happens now.
as to the long ago man standing up for woman thing, i don't see that as implying women are weaker; but the fact is no man is pregnant, a woman might be, and it benefits all society to assist that woman to a healthy outcome.

I saw somewhere that some men are now very wary of offering a seat to a woman for fear of being snubbed or ridiculed or treated as some sort of pervert.

Hopefully not applying if the woman is clearly elderly or obviously pregnant.

How do women here feel about the situation if, say, at a supermarket a man and she are approaching a doorway from opposite directions and he pauses, stands back, and lets her through first?

I was a seventies feminist and felt very much the daily sexism to which women were subjected. I believed in equality of opportunity and rights.

Now, my daughter is a fourth wave feminist (whatever that is) and her view of men and that of her female friends is that they are part of a toxic patriarchy and to be battled on all fronts.

I think in some cases the war of the sexes has gone too far and resulted in the belittling of men and boys. Indeed, working class white boys are identified as the least educated and privileged group of all youngsters. Older men cannot compete in the job market with young women and many boys sit in their bedrooms watching porn and playing computer games as there is no obvious place for them in society. The Incel movement is truly horrifying, too.

I have a decent, hardworking, good DH and DS as well as a DD and I can see that they are equal but different.

That's all I wanted for both sexes: equal opportunities and rights, not that one 'side' be sacrificed for the other. Surely the qualities of men and women are complementary and best used to work with and for each other?

Exactly Navvyhands. It's also no coincidence that now I tutor, rather than teach, that my tutees are 90% girls. All of whom think they're really not very good, when in fact most of them are destined for 9s/A*.

Don't get me wrong. I love working with boys too. Got flowers just last week from a grateful lad who I'd lavished help on.

I admire you, Grandma70s. I love writing, but suffered doing 4 essays without the texts in 3 hours!

I was thrilled to watch the Euro final etc and support our team but, did you see the singers and dancers at the opening? I was appalled, they wore gross, sexy, explicit costumes, danced around in a suggestive way and seemed to me to be absolutely what I do not want my granddaughter to aspire to. it was horrible and put womens' lib back years............