Anyone still thinking of voting tory at the next General Election?

Monica, I do know that what matters is the entrepreneurial environment when encouraging investment and agree with everything you’ve said. The 45 p is a very small part of it, it is something I picked on for making some of my views known about the mini budget. I was trying to cover many points in a general discussion and not prepare a lecture for an economic forum.
No disrespect but this is just a chat.

Hmmm.....Maybe I should have said a sixth former who specialised in classics trying to explain how they plan to make money to buy the school a new minibus.

Lots of ideas but none of them practical.

?

Thank you DaisyAnne, I will watch your link with interest.

Not everyone is a scientist nor an economist nor even a politician but surely on a chat forum even the simplest of us can voice an opinion. It really is just a chat to me. I may learn something, I may change my views, I may not. Surely differing views are what makes a chat more interesting, apart from cake of course.

LauraNorderr

The trouble with social media is that one person asks a question, by the time an answer is given the conversation has moved on. My comment re respect was in answer to Volver earlier. I think I answered, then got distracted before posting so completely out of sync. Apologies all round.
I have done other things since and just returned.
To answer Maizie, my original post was clear on the point that abolishing the 45p rate and not capping bonuses would attract the innovators, entrepreneurs, etc., to the U.K. these wealth creators are vital!to our economy if we are to be a better off society. Yes Maizie I agree with you that the state also has a role to play in investing in our infrastructure to grow our economy.
DaisyAnne, my feeling is that the wealth of the state should of course benefit the disabled with a good living income. My point about benefit capping was aimed only at those who are capable of work but choose not to. We have a huge increase in mental illness and I feel that some of the cause of depression is isolation. Going out to work, feeling that you are contributing to society, mixing with others, having self respect could help many and should be encouraged.
Of course there are issues such as childcare that need to be dealt with, perhaps better run by the state as are schools and after school clubs.
They’re just my views, which is what I thought we were being asked to give. Happy to read the views of others.

Psychologist or psychiatrist Laura you must be one of those. Can you show me one person you have come across who is capable but chooses not to work? One where you know all the ins and outs and how they are getting benefits if they should be capped? What makes you so sure this is the case? You talk about depression being made worse by staying at home. I have a relative who worked right up to the day their depression turned to extreme paranoia and they had to go into hospital. You paint a prejudiced picture.

I have said this so many times now yes, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts. Getting a disability benefit can be like having another illness. Yes, that traumatising. No one would do it if they don't have to.

And the government lie. They lie about why there are so many not given benefits initially when they are then given them after an appeal. The government said that this happened with PIP because people brought in more evidence at the appeal. Those who did this were found, after a Freedom of Information was finally answered, to be a minuscule amount. The rest went through on the same evidence and when the assessor's reports were compared with the recording, with a very small number not being awarded the benefit.

You have been conned Laura and conned by the Conservative government.

We can agree on the cake. ?

LauraNorderr Reducing the top rate of UK tax is unlikely to attract foreign investors because most of them don't pay UK income tax anyway.

Not only that, but many (most?) people earning over £150k (who are the only ones who will benefit) aren't entrepreneurs in the sense that they produce anything. They work in financial services and earn their money by shuffling other people's money around. They don't actually produce anything.

The real entrepreneurs in the UK are people who run SMEs, most of whom earn nothing like £150k.

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

PS. I've just scrolled back and realised that I duplicated MOnica's post and she went into far more detail. Sorry!

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

Maybe it's a shame they don't. Maybe you wouldn't hold wrong-headed views.

LauraNorderr

The wealth creators are often innovators, inventors, they start small and create their own wealth, create employment and build factories. Pay taxes and grow their business. They’ll invest where opportunity isn’t capped.
Swingeing cuts in areas of waste has my vote. Empire building within civil service departments for starters.

Neither of those answers the questions I asked, I'm afraid.
I'll rephrase:

Who is going to buy the goods and services your 'wealth creators' are going to create the wealth with? Where is their revenue to come from?

Patients are waiting hours for ambulance, then hours more in them when they get to hospital. People are having to wait 2 weeks for a doctor's appointment. The health service is desperately short of doctors and nurses.
School staffing has been cut to the bone, those that are left have had real terms pay cuts since 2910. Schools sren't going to be able to afford their energy bills this winter.
Police firces are short of officers and 'petty' crime is going uninvestigated because there's not enough police to do the job.
The Environment Agency is failing to monitor the sewage discharges because they don't have enough Inspectors and they can't afford to prosecute offenders.

I'm sure others can contribute more examples.
Can you explain where the 'waste' can be cut out?

MaizieD

^I hate to say Volver but the reaction to Truss will not last. They will begin to normalise what they are saying. It will begin to sound possible to some.^

Do you really think so? Do you think that when they put forward their plan for slashing public services, the NHS, pensions, benefits etc. to 'pay for' the tax cuts for the rich everyone is going to say 'Oh, yes, that makes perfect sense'?

I think a great deal will depend what happens to the state pension. So far, pensioners who own their own homes outright and have savings have been relatively protected (although they, of course, have children and grandchildren and buy food and fuel).

It's no surprise that the profile of Conservative voters is skewed towards the older generations.

If the triple lock is abandoned, the Conservatives will alienate many of their existing supporters. Most of the carefully manufactured culture wars will be forgotten when people are hit in their pocket.

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

You aren't going to learn anything or change your views if you walk out when people try to explain things...

You aren't going to learn anything or change your views if you walk out when people try to explain things...

?

Your posts will still be there tomorrow. Forever in the ether. It's not like a conversation between friends.

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?

No, I don't think so.

Fleurpepper nor does it depend on this thread.

I really can't believe the rudeness and intolerance shown on this thread.

Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?

It doesn't depend on Gransnet either.

Gransnet is not a government or opposition Think Tank.
It's just a load of older people expressing opinions.
Quite irrelevant in the general scheme of things.

kittylester

Fleurpepper nor does it depend on this thread.

I really can't believe the rudeness and intolerance shown on this thread.

Rude? Don't think so. People are feeling desperate and seriously concerned. For themselves and their families, and for the country which is in very serious trouble. So no wonder people are passionate about it. This is not intolerance but sheer despair for what is being done to the country by the very few.

Especially if people are saying they will vote for more of the same. Surely you can see that?

As we are all voters who will be able to participate in voting in the next Government, and to some extent decide on policy via the party or parties we choose, then to some extent, these threads and exchanges can help us decide which way to vote. Just as much as the Press or TV could.

The right to vote, imho, comes with the responsability to inform yourself, and listen to other opinions and arguments.

Fleurpepper

LauraNorderr

Backing out of the chat now and leaving it to the ‘experts’.
Glad my friends don’t insist on expertise in every field when we’re having a chat and expressing our views on a myriad of subjects.
Have a nice evening.

Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?

No, I don't think so.

I may feel Laura has incorrect facts about people "deciding" not to work and claim benefits, but her opinion of the Conservative view is one of many.

I do wish someone would watch the Common Ground (thread of the same name), so I know I am not hearing things or misunderstanding them. This gives more of an insight into the thinking of the Truss camp. And they believe it - and those who vote for them must believe it

Feeling desperate is no excuse for rudeness.

Lots of arrogance around too.

I know the conversation has ‘moved on’ but only just come online. So my answer is absolutely not. This was a ‘safe’ Tory seat. It is unlikely to remain so. The Conservatives have made themselves unelectable.

kittylester

Fleurpepper nor does it depend on this thread.

I really can't believe the rudeness and intolerance shown on this thread.

What's wrong with intolerance of claims which are just wrong? Should we behave like zombies and overlook "fake news"?

Callistemon21

^Does the country and its people depend on your chat with friends?^

It doesn't depend on Gransnet either.

Gransnet is not a government or opposition Think Tank.
It's just a load of older people expressing opinions.
Quite irrelevant in the general scheme of things.

?????

Growstuff You put it much more succinctly.

I deduce from LauraNorder's last post that she is saying that she is accustomed to talking any old tosh and basing her opinons on no evidence at all, beyond the fact that they quite appeal to her and that it has come as a shock to her that some people, possibly most people, expect those expressing contentious opinions on serious subjects to be able to support those views with evidence and references to the responsible sources.

If she is a typical Conservative supporter no wonder the country has had to suffer with utterly inadequate Conservative Prime Ministers, as the conservative electorate have voted for leaders, whose thought processes are as far into cloud-cuckoo land as their own.

kittylester

Feeling desperate is no excuse for rudeness.

Lots of arrogance around too.

Why not give your opinion on the subject of the thread instead of judging posts and posters? Will you vote Tory again?

No-one has to answer of course or contribute to a thread. Everyone is free to ignore and scroll past.

But as it was a lot of old people who voted for Brexit, and a lot of old people who voted for Tories, and Johnson, and Truss- they made a big difference, and tragically, not for the bette.