Goodness gracious great balls of fire ☄️

Don’t worry ? I am sure we all know that NanKate.

The 13 year old was called Myra.
One if his wives (think there were 7, some bigamous) was the ex-wife of Myra's brother!

You didn't cause offence, Nankate

To go off topic slightly, I recently saw the new Elvis film. It was great! Obviously a dramatised version but very interesting about the early days of roll n roll.

NanKate

Thank you to those who understood that I didn’t mean to cause offence. ?

You didn’t cause offence at all NanKate it was JLL who did that. The truth is never offensive.💐

I always thought the more unsavoury side of his life was common knowledge? But how do you separate the two? As BlueBelle has pointed out, talent can never override abuse. Yes, you can argue that the man had musical talent - that's not in question. But how can you separate that from the rest of his life? You can't.

I think you can, Blondiescot.

You will always see the person differently though and look twice at say, lyrics, images, etc. Gaugin, Jackson and Picasso spring to mind. What about Carravagio, Golding, Hopper, Dahl, Salinger...

The list of despicable people is quite long.
Some were deeply racist, some physically abusive, some emotionally so.

Where do we stop... even Enid Blyton was apparently emotionally crippled and incapable of love, tried to destroy her husband and neglected her children.

Gary Glitter is another whose music has been silenced. Understandably.

However, it was used, rather brilliantly, in the scene where Joaquin was dancing down the stairs in clown gear

www.nme.com/news/film/joker-steps-scene-gary-glitter-song-choice-explained-2605433

NotSpaghetti

I think you can, Blondiescot.

You will always see the person differently though and look twice at say, lyrics, images, etc. Gaugin, Jackson and Picasso spring to mind. What about Carravagio, Golding, Hopper, Dahl, Salinger...

The list of despicable people is quite long.
Some were deeply racist, some physically abusive, some emotionally so.

Where do we stop... even Enid Blyton was apparently emotionally crippled and incapable of love, tried to destroy her husband and neglected her children.

I get that. And, concentrating on the musical point of view, I also get that things went on in the 70s, 80s, 90s which were just seen as "that's how it was" at the time. But attitudes change, and now we look at these things from a different perspective. I think you can possibly still enjoy the music in its own right - but the taint will still cling to it...

Just read his Obituary in The Times.. Crikey that was an eye opener?
I didn't know anything about him.
Or tbh his Music..
It also said Elvis was going out with Priscilla when she was 14..
Bloody hell!!

Great musician and performer. Completely screwed up private life. The 13 year old he married has managed to write her own account of what happened. He grew up in a culture where early marriage was common (he was 16 when he first married). Different times, different values.

BlueBelle

If that was the case Chestnut Gary glitter wouldn’t be in prison and Jimmy Saville would still be an icon …. since when does talent excuse behaviour ?
It’s upsetting that someone can live such an abusive life but people excuse the behaviour because they are ‘talented’

I m sorry you feel I ve spoilt your thread for you nankate but these things should never be swept under the carpet
A person is not defined by their talent alone but by the whole way they live their life surely and in this man’s case it wasn’t just a one off mistake

It's up to people who knew him or knew what he did to question and challenge his private life that’s just it chestnut people don’t because often the talent overrides the behaviour in peoples minds, it then becomes an excuse

I m not sorry I ve brought this up it’s needs talking about, it needs being out in the open, talent can never override abuse

No-one is excusing his abuse!! For goodness sake, as others have pointed out, many creative people were flawed and we have to be careful not to destroy the past entirely.

This relates directly to the programme on Channel 4 the other night Jimmy Carr Destroys Art which needs a thread of its own so I will create one. The debate over whether there is ever a case for art to be destroyed.

NanKate you haven't caused offence except where people are looking to be offended.

.

I never realised what a horrible person he was!

You are right, Blondiescot talent can never override abuse but it is tainted by it.

I think we can agree on this!
(And about the 60s/70s/80s whatever too).

NotSpaghetti - I was discussing this with a friend on Facebook earlier today and we agreed. I think it is possible to accept that a person had talent and their music/art/literature, whatever, has merit, but in the cold light of the present day, that legacy will always be tainted. Yes, times were different then and attitudes have changed, but that doesn't mean we should just brush these things under the carpet because the person involved had talent or was some kind of celebrity.

I had thought that he had died many years ago.

Visgir1

Just read his Obituary in The Times.. Crikey that was an eye opener?
I didn't know anything about him.
Or tbh his Music..
It also said Elvis was going out with Priscilla when she was 14..
Bloody hell!!

I think he asked her father's permission!

Glorianny

Great musician and performer. Completely screwed up private life. The 13 year old he married has managed to write her own account of what happened. He grew up in a culture where early marriage was common (he was 16 when he first married). Different times, different values.

Yes, the legal age for marriage was 11 or 12 in some states of America at that time.
The marriage to Myra was probably bigamous.

One of his other wives was 14 and he was 16 when they wed.

NanKate

Thank you to those who understood that I didn’t mean to cause offence. ?

You didn't cause offense. He was a fantastic performer.

Learning is not offensive either, now we know.

People did marry early in his day, many people have multiple marriages.

People's abusive behaviours, substance abuses, adultery, theft, murder are never acceptable. Good discussion.

Visgir1

Just read his Obituary in The Times.. Crikey that was an eye opener?
I didn't know anything about him.
Or tbh his Music..
It also said Elvis was going out with Priscilla when she was 14..
Bloody hell!!

I was dating my husband at 12 and married at 16. Still married at 77.

Some people date and marry young.

That is truly not offensive, imo.

I m certainly not looking to be offended chestnut and Nannykate you didn’t offend me in the least so no need to a
apologise but saying others have been nasty pieces of work doesn’t excuse him and I think everyone should know the truth it was nt just about him marrying a young child at all it was about abuse, a possible murder, living bigamously
His whole life he got away with it because he was famous and talented I think you can love the persons music or art but need to realise the man personality behind the fame …that’s all

Thank you for starting the thread, NanKate

It has opened up an interesting discussion. I remember the furore when he arrived here in the UK with Myra. They may have been surprised at the reactions as, back home in Louisiana, their marriage wouldn't have been unusual at the time.
She is still alive, aged 78 and wrote books including Great Balls of Fire (turned into a film) and The Spark That Survived.

BlueBelle

I m certainly not looking to be offended chestnut and Nannykate you didn’t offend me in the least so no need to a
apologise but saying others have been nasty pieces of work doesn’t excuse him and I think everyone should know the truth it was nt just about him marrying a young child at all it was about abuse, a possible murder, living bigamously
His whole life he got away with it because he was famous and talented I think you can love the persons music or art but need to realise the man personality behind the fame …that’s all

He didn't actually "get away with it" in 1958 he was blacklisted because of his young wife and he had virtually no income.. As for the issue of her being his (second) cousin, in the US they are sometimes known as "kissing cousins"

It is not illegal to marry your first cousin, let alone your second.

Some places, in some circumstances, still allow marriage to girls we would consider "under age" - even in the West.
Here's the USA info for example:
worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/marriage-age-by-state