Following on from the 'posh' thread......

Living abroad, as I do, and mainly being in contact with very few old friends in the UK who were never class conscious and still are not, I can really only judge by what I read here and on other forums.

Sadly, I receive the the impression that the class system in still very much alive and kicking in Britain.

I am though a little in doubt as to whether it is equally in evidence all over the country or not.

Eleven years ago, when I last was in London, more than one person was quite abominably rude to me because they could hear from the way I speak English that I had been reared in Scotland.

"Bloody Scot" was the "kindest" remark made by people whom I had in no way offered provocation.

My reply was that I would sooner be a bloody Scot than a toffee-nosed Englishman and yes, that was intended to be offensive. After all, a guid Scotswoman gie's as good as she gets!

LadyHonoria
How true.
The only way my aunt met and married a titled man was by getting a scholarship to a fee paying school and then onto working in the city ( London)
Take away that scholarship and the options for a girl from a south London slum with a father who had been to prison were nil.

It's not as rigid as it was and perceptions of class vary (clothing has become less of an indicator, for example). Education has provided opportunities for mobility but many can't or don't use it. Aristocrats play down their difference by using family and given names rather than titles but land ownership is a very significant divide between the wealthy and the rest. The immense privileges of the Royals can never be achieved through hard work and ability (unless you marry into them of course). Overall, I think class is alive and well but the Tories and their friends work hard to obscure it.

There's a clear progression from "trade" which was lower middle class, to the next generation, privately educated, getting into upper middle, and if like say the Sainsbury family you become extremely rich, make the right connections, become philanthropists in a big way, are ennobled, obviously very much upper class.
But sometimes the 3rd generation wrecks it. Or just fizzles out.

I was born on a council estate to parents brought up in the tenement slums of the east end of London. I was reasonably well educated. I don't consider myself of any particular class. I think any sort of class system is dying fast. Things are so different now to how they used to be. People can be what they want now...has nothing to do with where they come from or what their parents do...

People can be what they want now...

Except Head of State....

You've a guid Scotch tongue in your heid grandtanteJE65 🙂

My son married the daughter of a Sir. They have always treated me well, much better than my other Dils parents who are middle class. I went to a wedding party last week in Pall Mall and felt welcome. Princess Anne’s husband was there but it didn’t faze me - a very poor orphan from Lancashire. 😂

Sirs aren't any specific class at all. They're just Sirs.

Sir Alex Ferguson. Sir Billy Connolly. Sir Gavin Williamson.

Oh yes…..it’s inherent in the British….always has been and always will be. But where it gets a bit confusing is that some of the population - both young and old - now believe that wealth can buy class!

It's a two way street, I think inverted snobbery is still alive and well. My best friend frequently goes on an upmarket organised trips - in that they are expensive because they go to out of the way places and appreciated very much by well educated clients.

On one trip to Africa a group of women kept calling her posh which quite upset her. The tour guide said she had an answer for that frequently used attitude with some of her clients. 'You obviously meant that as a slight. How about I call you common, how does that sit?' That shuts them up.

I am regularly taken as 'posh' because of the way I speak and the education I received. I'm not and it really gets up my nose. I just happen to speak like that as BBC received pronunciation seems to have been inherent in my upbringing.

It's all a big melting pot nowadays. In fact coming to the Ariege, one of the poorest departments in France, I am so pleasantly surprised by the range of English people that have moved here. From all walks of life and it is irelevant how one speaks, was educated, how big your house is, how much money you have and where you went to school. We all came here to get away from the rat race in UK and immerse ourselves in a relaxed way of life in the wonderful beauty, climate and culture of this corner of France Profonde.

I think we have a class system. The monarchy, upper class, middle class, and working class. I happily accept working class is where my family fit in the system. People are equal as humans. To me the class system doesn't matter.

What a fascinating discussion. I have two daughters; one a lawyer and the other a doctor. Both went to state schools and have encountered comments such as 'Well you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth', far from the truth. Class certainly exists in this country but you cannot buy it and anyone thinking that they can will soon give themselves away. As a family we happily mix with Lords and the homeless. Some of the classiest folk I know drive very old cars, happily shop in charity shops and scream with laughter at 'ridiculous' over spending and have houses stuffed with art and books. Being confident in yourself and abilities is far better than being hung up with so called 'class'.

Unfortunately yes.

I think the class system has been blurring at the edges ever since the industrial revolution. The only major differences left are private v state education and the strata of titles i.e. inherited peerages v life peers. Have you read ‘Class’ by Jilly Cooper? It’s a bit old but very perceptive!

Blossoming

Yes we do, and we always will while we have a monarchy that clings on to its rights and privileges.

You are absolutely correct!

People who do not believe we have a class system, must have very insular lives.
Individuals having friends with zero bank balance or with ££££ balance, doesn't mean we have no class system. Do these friends socialise regularly with one another?

My maternal grandparents had 9 children and would have been considered working class. Their work ethic was admirable. They were poor financially in spite of how hard they worked with nine children to feed and clothe. My Mother had to leave school at 14 to help with the family finances.,.... in spite of her high intelligence which nowadays would have entitled her to a university place.
My paternal grandparents had one child and would have been considered to be middle class. This because they were comfortably off financially. My Dad was educated privately and eventually got a place at Cambridge university after the second d world war.

Annewilko

People who do not believe we have a class system, must have very insular lives.
Individuals having friends with zero bank balance or with ££££ balance, doesn't mean we have no class system. Do these friends socialise regularly with one another?

Agreed on all counts.

Totally agree - you can have a vast bank balance and absolutely zero class!
I'll never forget going for a job interview years ago when I was asked "what kind of house do you live in?" I was flabbergasted by this and then tried to describe my house (which doesn't really fit into the usual detached, semi-detached etc categories) - until my interviewer said "no no, I mean it is a council house?"

Yes, the class system exists and Britain is obsessed with class. It will continue to thrive whilst we have the monarchy, inherited titles and private schools. I remember watching the "class system" sketch from the Frost Report around 1966. It featured John Cleese, Ronnie Barker and Ronnie Corbett. The three of them stood in line in order of height. They exchanged lines relating to their class e.g. "I look up to him, he looks down on me, I still look up to him because although I have money I am still vulgar" etc. It was very funny and exposed the nuances of class in relation to innate breeding as opposed to just having money. Sorry I don't have the tech knowledge to find and post a clip but I'm sure it will still exist somewhere.

I think that education is more important than ‘class” I was born to affluent middle class parents, and received a public school education, as did my DH; however when my own children were little we were poor( due to DH ill health) so by economic definition working class. However our education (if not our finances) meant that we were able to fight for the best schools, obtain bursaries and grants for the children, and get all three through university. Education was the key and my children were lucky, others not so! sadly without the advantages that education afforded them

Yes, alive and well. In some shops if asked my name, my service suddenly goes up another notch or three...Ridiculous but true x

m.youtube.com/watch?v=UDIHrX-Jp2E

The word POSH stems from when rich people traveled by ship. It stands for Port outer, Starboard home. POSH was written on their tickets. These people were able to afford the cool cabins. The lower class, less well off had to endure the heat of the day.
Yes the class system still exists unfortunately and I guess it always will