Title edited by GNHQ: Trigger Warning - Really shocked

hollysteers

The wide gap between male and female suicides begs questions.
Is it that men’s roles are now less defined? More emphasis is given to women’s rights, health and problems, or are men simply more efficient at ending their lives?
Utterly tragic whatever the reasons.

I think on the whole, women talk about their feelings more, to family, friends, colleagues.

Many men don’t.

My DH, thankfully not suicidal, doesn’t chat about how he feels, not like me. I think he feels it would be weak and unmanly.

Wyllow3, yes - we do have to really look at our society - and take great care with our young people, as it's just too sad and such a terrible waste.

Trying to get any support/help for my students (the outside help with MH) was unpredictable, lacking - or pot luck - simply not good enough. It's mainly young men, rather than women. They live in constant pain and just want it all to stop.

We'd talk (I felt out of my depth) and I'd encourage them to just hang on, whatever - and promise that they'd feel differently in time (maybe six months or next year). I'd always talk with their parents, too, as the 'confidentiality' didn't apply when there was a risk to life (or criminal activity) involved.

I don't know how much the statistics have changed recently, but it's nothing new. Our friend when we were young, Pete, took his own life and we never knew why.

Can I just add, for those who have never experienced mental health problems/depression/anxiety that it is utterly terrifying. I hadn't experienced it until a few years ago and was one of the 'pull yourself together' people, including to my brother at times.
When I began to experience my own mental health issues, boy did I realise. You can feel so bad in yourself that anything would be better than facing another day. Logic cannot be applied to the way you feel.

biglouis

I have very ambivalent feelings about suicide. I believe that you own your own life and its yours to live or not, as you choose.

Its very sad when a young person decided to end it all. Everyone around them, friends and family have to bear what they see as the guilt of not being able to help that person.

Suicide is the strongest statement you can make about how you feel the world has treated you. But in the end it is your decision. If someone is determined to put an end to their life then I believe it is wrong to iterfere with that decision or to prevent them doing so. I would never act to prevent another person from ending their life if I believed they really wished to do it.

I would quietly walk away without guilt and leave them to execute their choice.

But surely the point is that when a person is seriously considering suicide they are not in a fit state to make that decision. My son got to this stage once. We knew that he had mental health problems and something triggered an alarm bell for his so we dashed over to him. We insisted he came back with us, saw a GP and stayed with us until he was feeling in a better frame of mind. He didn't really want to but we wouldn't give in. It was a long slog to get him back on his feet but he got there eventually.
15 years later, he has remarried with 2 more lovely children and is mentally stronger than ever. When his wife had a still birth at term 8 years ago, we really worried for him but he had the maturity and strength to get help. He realised when he was slipping down that black slope, he'd been there before and could get better. If we'd walked away because he had a choice, it would have been a tragic and needless death.

Sincere condolences MadeinYorkshire. Such a tragedy for you and your family

Suicide leaves a life time legacy of daily pain and guilt for those left behind. We need education for people of all ages to cope with the curse of true depression, desperation and above all to show the cruelty suicide inflicts on others.
There is a lot of bandying about ‘mental health’ when actually it seems to arise from life setbacks that we all experience from time to time, so that identification of deeply affected people can not be easily achieved

Suicide is the biggest killer in the under 45’s males. It’s very sad and shocking fact that seems unreal. Very sad for the families and the person..

We can only imagine how dreadful these people are feeling to take such a drastic measure.

They can't inform the parents unless the young person gives permission: they are legally adults medically.

I second this! Having worked in a university setting I have observed colleagues being torn apart by not being able to inform parents about students’ MH issues. If the student doesn’t give permission it is simply not possible, I suppose similar to a doctor. As Willow says, University students are legally adults and must be treated as such.

It was my birthday yesterday and my two kids and two grandkids came over and we had a takeaway , and presents came my way of course. But I got to asking my grandson, 15, was he going to university if he got the results , and he said no, he didn’t want to study some useless subject ( media studies was mentioned!) come out the other end £20,000 in debt and no chance of finding anything useful to do with yet another worthless degree ….given like sweeties to anybody who turns up! Uni has become a big business , and NOT a seat of the best becoming better! They are in the business to fleece parents and kids of precious money they can’t afford. He said he’s going to sixth form to do a btec in something he wants to do as a job in future. “ I want it to be a useful thing , to put toward my career nanny” is what he said. What wise words from a 15 year old ….he says he is doing his exams next year and he doesn’t feel one iota of pressure because that’s how his parents have brought him up…he’s been told it doesn’t matter what he does with his life , and exams are unimportant unless you want to be something particular … doctor…nurse…engineer… that sort of thing!
Both my grandkids feel no pressure from anybody to do anything except what’s necessary for their needs. Pressure comes from home …not schools. What a sad thing to have to say , I am extraordinarily sorry for those boys and girls who have taken their lives because of others expectations of them! So sad!

I'm so sorry to everyone on her who has lost someone they love to suicide

I think a lot of young people are just too young to go off to university. All my European friends are gobsmacked that we send ours off and away as in Spain and other places they generally live at home whilst studying. One of mine is at uni and this is my worst nightmare tbh that they would develop MH issues and I wouldn't know. Luckily they are very open with me but it's not fail safe so I understand why parents feel they should have been told so they could intervene.

My life was changed and shaped by someone very close to me committing suicide when I was nineteen.
For years I was angry, felt it was weak, selfish, and being young and optimistic, thought that things would have got better, and they would have done I’m sure, but he just couldn’t get past the place he was in.
Since then, I’ve lost a friend, one of my daughters has lost a friend, and one of my friends has lost a child.
All of those seemed to be out of the blue, here today, gone tomorrow, no obvious reasons, but clearly unbearably unhappy with no hope.
How do we prevent something we don’t know is happening?
Probably there was the odd red flag that wasn’t picked up on, and the sense of guilt is something their families will live with forever.

We have our 151/2 GD living with us. she has high anxiety and has meltdowns. A lot of it caused by her mother and stepfather and other things going on at home. We only live an hour from London and my greatest fear was when she talked about running away that’s where she’d end up. We told her if that was the case she should run away to us. She did in September and won’t even talk about her mothers house. It has caused a family split in the her mother and stepfather don’t speak to us now and we won’t see our youngest GD now till she is old enough to decide for herself. Despite the family split I feel we have done the right thing and she is safe with us. Her grades are going up at school she has stopped self harming is having counselling and her an it isn’t quite so high. We are so proud of her. I hate to think what could of happened . So at 65 and 67 we are bringing up a teenager. I’d rather that than think of what could of happened . It’s so sad the pressure on youngest these days.

muse

It is a growing concern with many parents bevispl.

We have a friend whose son took his life 18 months ago. He was in his third year. An inquest was held and found that the university's well being teams weren't fit for purpose and staff needed more training around suicide prevention. What shocked us was that the parents hadn't been notified that their son had contacted tutors to let them know of his worries.

His parents are now trying to get a petition going for parliamentary legislation that will require, amongst other aspects, that universities publish annually the suicide rate of enrolled students. When looking at universities, parents need to be aware of just how good the wellbeing care is, alongside what the degree course is like.

University students are adults, so any tutor or student councillor who contacted a student's parents to discuss anything at all would be acting very wrongly and very irresponsibly.

Nothing that an adult tells any of these people may be repeated to others, irrespective of their relationship to the person in question.

It is very sad that so many young people are taking their own lives, but trying to prevent this does not entail repeating anything you were told in confidence.

Obviously, if there is too much pressure on young people today the problem needs to be addressed, but is there?

There have always been suicides and the really sad thing is that any suicide makes you wonder why no-one realised how unhappy the person was. Where were the friends and relations who should have noticed that something was wrong?

When my daughter was in her mind to late teens there was a spate of boys locally who sadly took their own lives, all of them she was at school with or worked her part time job with. Terribly sad, I don't know how she got over it, sad for those they leave behind.

How heartbreaking , I’ve always felt the younger people have suffered the most through Covid. I’ve had my life and we were the lucky generation, it does annoy me hearing how selfish the people can be towards the young, Be kinder to those you meet, tip if you can, donate to food banks.

MadeInYorkshire 🌹so very sorry for the loss of your daughter. My heart goes out to you.

It's not that easy grandtante. We knew there was 'something wrong' with our brother but we didn't know what. To be honest he became difficult and awkward. With hindsight, we now know that he was troubled. We didn't know that then. We had no experience of suicide. Never in a million years did we think he was so troubled that he would take his own life. I don't believe that feeling unhappy is the same as feeling suicidal. We tried to help him. I wish we had understood more but we didn't realise.

maybe I'm missing something but what difference would it make to mental health by the publishing of suicide stats? (Students are adults so unless there are special circumstances, then the information should be confidential) There is no vaccine for depression and anxiety.
It appears that the more we ask people to talk about their feelings that the worse things are. by all means give people coping strategies but do you really need to get people to re-live their anxieties? You don't keep treading on a toe to know it is broken.

There is something in what you say,Fanny Conforth, my son took his own life last year, he had been struggling with bipolar disorder for some years, on and off medication which he hated ( many side effects ). But he had known very well three people who died by suicide, and I think it could have played a part. Young people and anyone with mental health issues should be helped but I do know that in my son's case we could only have postponed his decision, not prevented it.Of course there is guilt and what if's but we couldn't have done any more to help him.

I agree it is extremely complicated and happens for so many different reasons. My grandfather was neither poor nor unhappy but as a stockbroker the 1929 crash suddenly drove him to committing suicide. My father drowned himself in Perth WA, an equally irrational action. I have no idea whether either of them were premeditated.

Saggi

It was my birthday yesterday and my two kids and two grandkids came over and we had a takeaway , and presents came my way of course. But I got to asking my grandson, 15, was he going to university if he got the results , and he said no, he didn’t want to study some useless subject ( media studies was mentioned!) come out the other end £20,000 in debt and no chance of finding anything useful to do with yet another worthless degree ….given like sweeties to anybody who turns up! Uni has become a big business , and NOT a seat of the best becoming better! They are in the business to fleece parents and kids of precious money they can’t afford. He said he’s going to sixth form to do a btec in something he wants to do as a job in future. “ I want it to be a useful thing , to put toward my career nanny” is what he said. What wise words from a 15 year old ….he says he is doing his exams next year and he doesn’t feel one iota of pressure because that’s how his parents have brought him up…he’s been told it doesn’t matter what he does with his life , and exams are unimportant unless you want to be something particular … doctor…nurse…engineer… that sort of thing!
Both my grandkids feel no pressure from anybody to do anything except what’s necessary for their needs. Pressure comes from home …not schools. What a sad thing to have to say , I am extraordinarily sorry for those boys and girls who have taken their lives because of others expectations of them! So sad!

That is so true and so wise……👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

My thoughts are with everyone on here who has lost family members to suicide. So heartbreaking

My son who is now 37 was not at all academic and when he was 16 he got a part-time job with a local building firm during the summer holidays. It was quite a menial job but they gave him more and more hours and he said he would like to stay there and not go back to school. I rang the school and said he has got a job he won’t be back to school they told me he had to go back to school or I would be taken to court and I said well take me where you like he’s not sat at home doing nothing, you know as well as I know he’s not academic. Anyway I didn’t hear anything from the school my son went on to go up to Norfolk to get qualified as a digger JCB driver however he found that boring after a couple of years and taught himself bricklaying he has now been 20 years at the same firm and is a brilliant bricklayer earning brilliant money. by the way the school used to ring me and say Max isn’t doing his homework and I would say what would you like me to do,hit him with a big stick? I said you can keep him in play time and lunchtime but you and I both know he’s not academic, far too much pressure on academia…

I strongly disagree with biglouis post. I really can't believe people can think like that. It can take as little as one word to show someone that there are people who care and give them a glimmer of hope.
My daughter has talked about it with me, once when she was 17 and her first boyfriend died due to a transplant failure, and later at university when a very strong character bullied her. She had good support, but I text her everyday and support her with everything.

MadeinYorkshire, I am so saddened by your news, I hope you are getting the support you need.