With reference to the recent issue with Lady Susan and Ngosi Fulani- at what stage does someone become British?

My Dad was born in Poland (to German/Russian parents) and lived there until his early 20s. He was working in Belgium when WW11 broke out and crossed to England where he joined the Polish Free Army. He was stationed in Scotland for a time, met my Mum, and they were married post-war. Like many others, he never returned to Poland because of Communist rule, and took out British citizenship via naturalisation in 1952. He died five years later and I don’t remember him at all as I was so young and he was hospitalised for a long time prior to his death. Where we lived in England at that time, there was a sizeable number of Polish exiles, a lot of whom had married British women. Mum told me most had naturalised but to her ken, not one of them including my Dad ever thought of themselves as anything but Polish and that’s the way I have always thought of him.

The people I have a problem with are people like the Spanish lady my friend married and now has citizenship but never stops harping about what we’re doing wrong.
We know what’s wrong. But it’s a bit like someone criticising your child / husband. You can do it, but not someone else.

Allsorts

Where your heart is.

Yes, however - it is not as easy as this.

There are so many people living in the UK whose heart is here- but they are not British, and even if they got nationality and passport, would not be accepted or considered as such by many, as kircubbin's post clearly indicates.

Do you believe that it is impossible to have your heart in two places, more even, perhaps. I can teel you that it is, for many.

MerylStreep

The people I have a problem with are people like the Spanish lady my friend married and now has citizenship but never stops harping about what we’re doing wrong.
We know what’s wrong. But it’s a bit like someone criticising your child / husband. You can do it, but not someone else.

EVen if they have lived in the country since kids, even if they have lived, participated, contributed, paid taxes, supported local services, etc, to the country for half a Century?

I can assure you British expats all over the world, who don't even speak the local language, or have NOT acquired the nationality of the country they live in - do that all the time, by the ton load.

kircubbin2000

If you met Miss Fulani I don't think British would be your first thought, specially in that outfit!

It doesn't matter what others think. Legally and personally, she's British.

Fleurpepper. Do you have any positive views on British people, no matter where they live

Fleurpepper

Allsorts

Where your heart is.

Yes, however - it is not as easy as this.

There are so many people living in the UK whose heart is here- but they are not British, and even if they got nationality and passport, would not be accepted or considered as such by many, as kircubbin's post clearly indicates.

Do you believe that it is impossible to have your heart in two places, more even, perhaps. I can teel you that it is, for many.

I agree. I have lived in many countries, but the one (other than the UK) that I also felt I belonged in was China. Another old culture, like Britain, with many other similarities that were very unexpected to me. I am now too old (well, almost) to work there, so will probably never return. But a part of me will always miss it. I don't feel that way about other places I have lived.

So my heart is partly there, although I will never return.

Iam64

Fleurpepper. Do you have any positive views on British people, no matter where they live

This is a light hearted thread.

I agree that citizenship is in the eye of the beholder. My sister-in-law has lived in the UK for over 60 years, my spouse has been a citizen for over 20, and resident longer, but to some people they will never be British.

They are both white, and have the joy of being regularly told both that they are not really British, and that they’re not really immigrants (ie not black or brown or whatever nationality the Daily Fail has an issue with that week).

Hardly any of the British population can lay claim to being ‘really British’. Just have your DNA tested.

Iam64

Fleurpepper. Do you have any positive views on British people, no matter where they live

Oh I do, you have no idea. So many wonderful family, friends and people. This post is however, not about me. The response I gave is about Anglo-Saxons expats, who sadly, have a really bad reputation abroad, overall, for not integrating, not learning the language even after decades- there are 1000s of exceptions of course.

Now about that Spanis Lady your friend married, MeryllStreep- if she has worked in this country, contributed to this country in many ways, learnt the language, got stuck in in so many ways, why should she not have a say and an opinion?

Your post illustrates exactly what perhaps this thread was about, so in a way, thanks.

Mamie, I do think the situation is very different if anyone moves into a country to retire, or work for their latter years- and as you say, have no intention of taking the nationality. It does not mean however, that those who do are not entitled to have an opinion.

I have friends from Israel who have got British nationality and have lived here for 15 years. They are told that are not 'properly' British and shouldn't 'meddle in British politics'- despite working for the NHS in key jobs. And when visiting adult children in Israel, are told they not live abroad, so have no right to an opinion in what is happening there. So do they become 'nobody' with no rights to an opinion anywhere, perhaps?

Casdon

Hardly any of the British population can lay claim to being ‘really British’. Just have your DNA tested.

Yes, we're a nation of mongrels all right.

My DH is from New Zealand and has had a UK passport since about 1980, but he never complains about the weather so not really British yet.

Allsorts

Where your heart is.

Back to this one, as it is really interesting. But this is not just about people who live outside the UK. I have friends in London, who still think of themselves as Geordies, or from Yorkshire, or Northern Ireland, first and foremost. In many ways, their heart is still there, but they are economic migrants.
Friends in Paris who still think of themselves as being from the 'Midi', with strong accents to match after 50+ years, and so on, all over the world. You don't have to move countries to have your heart elsewhere, or indeed, in two or more places. Peopple who go back home and then return home (where they live now).

Siope

I agree that citizenship is in the eye of the beholder. My sister-in-law has lived in the UK for over 60 years, my spouse has been a citizen for over 20, and resident longer, but to some people they will never be British.

They are both white, and have the joy of being regularly told both that they are not really British, and that they’re not really immigrants (ie not black or brown or whatever nationality the Daily Fail has an issue with that week).

Great post. So glad you understand what this thread is about.

GagaJo

Iam64

Fleurpepper. Do you have any positive views on British people, no matter where they live

This is a light hearted thread.

Yeah right!😄😖
We aren’t all mugs Gagajo

It is indeed not a 'lighthearted' thread. It is an important subject, for more and more people in this increasingly shrinking world, with huge mobility across countries and continents. Probably more so for our ACs and GCs in future. But it is certainly not a confrontational thread, nor an argument, but hopefully an intelligent discussion, and perhaps, for some, an eye opener (or not).

Orea, mugs? Who and why?

Oreo

GagaJo

Iam64

Fleurpepper. Do you have any positive views on British people, no matter where they live

This is a light hearted thread.

Yeah right!😄😖
We aren’t all mugs Gagajo

No, but we can at least try not to lower ourselves to be unpleasant. Why always see the negative?

I don’t know Gagajo but I can see the negative in this thread a mile off.
Leave you to ponder on it.

Oreo

I don’t know Gagajo but I can see the negative in this thread a mile off.
Leave you to ponder on it.

I think if the participants are open to discussion, it should be fine.

Oreo

I don’t know Gagajo but I can see the negative in this thread a mile off.
Leave you to ponder on it.

What a very strange comment.

There is nothing negative about the OP, at all. If someone, or some, choose to turn it into an argument, and negative at that, then it is their prerogative.

Or perhaps an indication of stereotype or prejudice of their own making. That would be a great pity.

Oreo, what do you think about the question in the OP. That would be interesting, thanks, especially as you are totally new to GN it seems.

I think I’ve been complained - in varying degrees - about every country I’ve lived in. I’d find it a little weird, I think, to sit with friends who were bitching about something that was evidently a problem, and remain silent. And it would be unconscionable to ignore injustices of any kind.

I pay my taxes, I get a voice.

Complained, not been complained.