Public speaking

When I was teaching year5 the children loved doing their presentations.Most of them using screens and the internet,weren’t phased by it because it was only in our classroom and they were used to each other.
However,when I was a prefect at the grammar school we had to
do two weeks on the stage,sitting with the headmaster,in front of 900 pupils and staff.One week involved reading the lesson from the Bible each day,and the other week was just sitting there.I hated it. I can still see that sea of faces, and feel the knocking of my knees!

Aveline lives in Scotland and I am assuming her grandson does too.

These are the listening and talking outcomes for First Level in Curriculum for Excelelnce.

I can select ideas and relevant information, organise these in a logical sequence and use words which will be interesting and/or useful for others.

I can communicate clearly when engaging with others within and beyond my place of learning, using selected resources.

When I engage with others, I know when and how to listen, when to talk, how much to say, when to ask questions and how to respond with respect.

There is nothing in the outcomes which suggests a child has to present to a whole class.
If that was my class, knowing the anxiety, I would ask the child to present either to myself or to a partner, not a whole class.
There is always a way.

Unless the teacher is made aware of the child's anxiety over this task, how on earth can a teacher know the stress the child is under?
I'm sure the teacher is already already aware that Aveline's grandson finds these situations stressful.
No teacher I know, would be that cruel.

That should of course read: Curriculum for Excellence.
The pedant in me is embarrassed!

Newly qualified teachers may lack experience, but they can help refresh the practice of their colleagues.

I'm not sure what the connection is between being newly qualified and lacking in sympathy. (Or should that be lacking in empathy?)

If your daughter has concerns Aveline, all the more reason to contact the school.

Doodledog

One strategy is to ask the nervous person (in this case your grandson) what he is scared of. Get him to break it down to the smallest 'chunks' he can. Typical things might be that he's scared that he'll forget what to say, that he's scared that people will laugh, that he's worried that his voice might dry up.

Then you can tell him strategies for dealing with those things if they happen:
He won't forget what to say if he has a script, or a PowerPoint presentation.

It's most unlikely that people will laugh, as he's very good, but also as they will be too busy thinking about their own presentation, or remembering things they wish they'd done better. Also, the teacher will stop anyone laughing.

If his voice dries up he can have a drink of water (assuming that's allowed?) Or he can have a drink before the class, if not.

Most worries like this can be pre-empted and dealt with mentally, so if they do happen they are easier.

But he’s 9!! He’s still a baby….

The poor wee soul can't even say what it is that he's worried about. He just keeps crying and saying that he's 'anxious'. I don't know if he's even sure what that means. Just a horrible feeling inside? He's very shy at the best of times even though he's also very good at all his written work and reading. He beats me and his big brother at Monopoly and Uno. A bright lad but not an outgoing one.

Covid and lockdowns, doing set schoolwork at home hasn't helped, has it

There are a lot of children who are suffering from social anxiety as a result and teachers should be well aware of this and make allowances.

Aveline I'm just wondering if you can't get the system changed if it would help to teach him some basic relaxation techniques to help him.
The problem with fear is it triggers the fight or flight impulse which is an inbuilt response. It sounds as if this is the situation he is now in.
Breathing techniques might help.
If you can get him to breathe in and out slowly, holding for a count of three after each in and out breath it might help. Slowing the breathing down brings someone out of the fight or flight situation
www.sfh-tr.nhs.uk/media/3782/fight_or_flight_and_relaxed_breathing.pdf

But he’s 9!! He’s still a baby….
I know, which means his worries are likely to be different from those of an adult. My suggestions might not be age-appropriate (it's a while since I've been around 9 year olds), but the idea of breaking down concerns into smaller parts is often effective when people are anxious.

Aveline has said that he doesn't know, or can't articulate why he's worried though, so it won't work. What do you think should happen, Aveline? Would it make him even more anxious next time if he's allowed not to do it now, or do you think the reverse is true?

I don't know. It seems that some of the others actually like this activity. I suppose, ideally, I'd like it to have been over and done with last Monday as planned. Deferring it.at the last minute has made things even worse as it's hanging over him. He'll have to do it. I'm sure he'll feel very relieved once it's over but I doubt he'll feel better about it next time.

Kids have been standing up in front of others doing assemblies for decades. My own children I remember doing nativities - speaking, reading, acting - at Early Years stage thirty years ago. And later even singing alone or dancing. Probably it's easier to get them to do it as young as possible.
Surely it's better to have to stand up and do it now, rather than wait until there's something important hanging on it - don't many people have to do presentations at job interviews etc.

Chardy

Kids have been standing up in front of others doing assemblies for decades. My own children I remember doing nativities - speaking, reading, acting - at Early Years stage thirty years ago. And later even singing alone or dancing. Probably it's easier to get them to do it as young as possible.
Surely it's better to have to stand up and do it now, rather than wait until there's something important hanging on it - don't many people have to do presentations at job interviews etc.

Most children are fine with it, but for some children it is not just difficult, but sometimes traumatic and sometimes impossible. I taught two elective mutes in my career neither of whom could have managed any of these things. We accommodated them. Children who have other difficulties need to be accommodated as well. Any teacher should realise that a child who is very nervous is unlikely to show their real potential.

Well said, Glorianny. Forcing an anxious child to do something like this is just wrong. I can clearly remember the feeling of absolute dread I had in primary school at the thought of having to get up and sing in front of everyone. I just couldn't do it - and was thrown out of the classroom for refusing to do so. And to make matters worse, when my mother heard about it, I got even more grief from here for 'making a show' of myself.

Aveline, I have been giving some thought to this.
Your grandson should have been given criteria for what is expected of him.

In his anxiety is he thinking that much more is being expected of him, than actually is being asked?
Sometimes parents misunderstand and try to help by adding their own input. The task then becomes a more onerous exercise, than the teacher ever intended it to be. Your DD needs to be proactive and find out..
This is another reason for having a quiet word with the school to alert them.

Tasks often get postponed in busy classrooms, it's the norm.
In the teacher's defense, he may be totally unaware of the anxiety the postponement has caused.
Why leave the wee soul worrying until Monday, when it can be addressed now?

What a trauma for a young boy. I was painfully shy but dad travelled the country to follow his engineering work, resulting in me attending about 11 schools. The first day must have been terrible, especially nobody to go to lunch with. Time passed and I got a job in the City Square mile. My confidence started to build but to build up my holiday fund I worked in pubs in the evening or weekends. One pub was a favourite with cricket teams and they teased me incessantly making me blush. I’m a natural blonde, quite rare according to the doctors I’ve consulted, making my red face really noticeable. How I didn’t run away I really don’t know. Time continued to pass and now I am happy to give a speech at the Albert Hall. Who cares what people think but I don’t personally agree with young tearful children pushing themselves out of their comfort zone.

Aveline…
When I was his age (even younger) we had an “ice breaker moment” in school called Show & Tell. Once a month every kid could bring something in to present - a recent gift, a piece of artwork, a favorite book, something found in nature, craftwork, small household item, etc.
Everyone had to stand up and talk about it, show it off - even if it took only a minute or less. It was fun and gave children an opportunity to give a little speech about something they loved or had interest in.
A little exercise in self-confidence never hurt anyone. Better to start young.
I can’t imagine they have anything like that in early school grades these days. Too bad.
Cheers!
USA Gundy

Gundy, they still do Show and tell in the early stages in Scotland and with a different name further up the school.

I am uncomfortable reading posters commenting that the little boy is being traumatised by the teacher, by asking him to do a presentation.
We are hearing the story third hand. Child-parent-grandparent.
The wee one is so anxious that, he may have thought more is expected of him than is actually being asked for.
From experience I know how messages from school can be distorted, once it reaches the parent.

* following the Scottish talking and listening guidelines, it should be a short talk, not a full blown presentation, complete with Powerpoints.

* It is not compulsory, the guidelines are very broad and the teacher makes the decision on the best way to achieve the outcomes, depending on the child's needs and the school's language policy.
There are many ways to achieve this, to overcome barriers to learning.

The most important thing here is the emotional and mental wellbeing of this wee boy
If it were me, I would have contacted the school immediately to alert them to the problem. it is not insoluable.

To leave that wee boy anxious until Monday is cruel.
Sorry for the rant, but this was my area of expertise, ^ breaking down barriers to learning.^ and showing compassion for those who find school life difficult.

I’m in total agreement Mary.
I believe we worked in very similar areas too

I'm in agreement with Mary and Fanny on this too. I was an Infant teacher in England. His mum needs to go to school and find out what is expected of him. If it is has been told to us then she needs to say her son is not up to it and it needs to be altered for him and the teacher or Head would listen.
As for all the posters who say you grow into it with practice,you don't, I'm speaking from experience. Mine and my family.
Big girl's knickers don't come into it. Frighten a young child and they are often frightened for life. If I had suggested to my DD she attended Stage Coach she would have been worried all the time. Just like I was when I had to do presentations and use PowerPoint for parents., take an assembly of the whole school yes, adults no.

Show and tell still goes on in England, though I’m sure to be told it’s not in all schools.
Then there are class assemblies from Y1 onwards (performed in front of school and class parents), class performances or displays for parents related to the theme -Greeks or Artists etc, where children either individually or as a group have a speaking part or, if it’s a display, talk to the parents when they visit their section.
I’d be asking what speaking activities have been going on since the start of school.
It’s a shame he’s been allowed to get so upset, but what’s already been said up thread and Yammy’s first paragraph @ 9:51 is the best way to go.

Good post, Marydoll

I do remember when DGD2 got in a bit of a spin over a presentation she had to do in about Y4. We found some good resources on Twinkl, I printed off pictures and she made a display of them and wrote under each picture. She could choose her own subject (within the parameters) and took in a cuddly toy to demonstrate the wildlife of the country she spoke about, and the toy added a bit of comfort too, I suspect.

Callistemon21

Good post, Marydoll

I do remember when DGD2 got in a bit of a spin over a presentation she had to do in about Y4. We found some good resources on Twinkl, I printed off pictures and she made a display of them and wrote under each picture. She could choose her own subject (within the parameters) and took in a cuddly toy to demonstrate the wildlife of the country she spoke about, and the toy added a bit of comfort too, I suspect.

I think that’s why show and tell is fine ( in fact I was just pondering on this thread and came up with that conclusion) because the child isn’t the complete focus of attention).

My husband was very shy as a child and would have struggled with any form of public speaking but his mother would talk to anyone. Gradually he has become his mother and now chats to anyone and everyone. Our grandson had been on a family holiday with us a couple of years ago when he was 13. He went for a walk with my husband and noticed that he chatted to anyone he met. Afterwards he told his mother that he wanted to be like Grandfather so that he could feel comfortable talking to anyone. Since then he has practised and his communication skills have improved and now at 15 his confidence has grown.

I think what some of these posts show is that some children will grow in confidence in speaking in public and others won't. One thing that is for sure, is that if you avoid these situations, the fear will become bigger and bigger. Finding a solution which works to get children over this hurdle is important so that they can do what they need to get through in their adult lives. This may not mean Public Speaking but might mean getting them to be able to speak up for themselves so they can do job interviews, approach their bank manager, etc.

MayBee70

Callistemon21

Good post, Marydoll

I do remember when DGD2 got in a bit of a spin over a presentation she had to do in about Y4. We found some good resources on Twinkl, I printed off pictures and she made a display of them and wrote under each picture. She could choose her own subject (within the parameters) and took in a cuddly toy to demonstrate the wildlife of the country she spoke about, and the toy added a bit of comfort too, I suspect.

I think that’s why show and tell is fine ( in fact I was just pondering on this thread and came up with that conclusion) because the child isn’t the complete focus of attention).

I think that’s why show and tell is fine
MayBee I think our U3A group leader must have been a primary school teacher because she still uses the Show and Tell method - one or two in the group are nearly 90

I popped in to see if Aveline had posted an update. I have been thinking of the wee soul worrying about his presentation.