Public speaking

Glorianny

At my GCs school the same process seems to operate for speaking to the teacher that did when I was teaching. Grab her as she's trying to make sure every child has a parent to collect them.

The teacher is a man

I have had dealings with at least 12 Primary Schools in the past six years, and they have all had a School Business Manager

All our local state primary schools (not academies) have had Bursars.

FannyCornforth

Glorianny

At my GCs school the same process seems to operate for speaking to the teacher that did when I was teaching. Grab her as she's trying to make sure every child has a parent to collect them.

The teacher is a man

OK Grab him (talk about quibbling over the details!)

I think I have found out why. This report has a map in it showing responses from areas about school managers. The north had only one report. There were many more from the south dera.ioe.ac.uk/8212/1/school-business-managers-full-report.pdf
Interesting!

Yes! Grab him! We speak as one!
I’m in the East Midlands btw

FannyCornforth

Yes! Grab him! We speak as one!
I’m in the East Midlands btw

If you have time to look at the report (I tried to cut and paste the image but couldn't) if you drew a line across England around the Humber (think old Northumbria kingdom) there was only one response from North of that line. There were differing numbers and many more responses from south of it.

We're in Scotland!

I know.
We’d gone off piste

Glorianny

I've been in many primary schools never met a bursar, or a school manager. I have met school secretaries who did the whole lot for next to nothing. I wonder if it's an Academies thing? Posh titles like public schools?
I do know what bursars are in universities and private schools. But as I said not in state primaries. And I've been in all sizes. From 3 form intakes to part time teaching heads.

No it’s not just academies-but maybe it is applicable to different parts of the country.
My experience at sundry primaries for what it’s worth,
In a Norfolk primary, I was introduced to the Business Manager.
In Southampton I met-bursars or business manager with or without additional secretarial staff depending on size of school
Greater Manchester -Business manager or office manager, with or without
additional secretarial staff depending on size of school.
Further north, likewise, plus administrative assistants, school business partner-except in some smaller schools where the title was secretary, even though they did the multitudinous tasks carried out by office managers/bursars plus secretarial tasks.
They’re the more up to date titles, like NQTs are now Early Careers Teachers (ECT).
It doesn’t actually matter whether you know what they’re called, only that they are the people who will connect you with the head or class teachers, unless you can ‘grab one at the end of the day’.

Mollygo

Glorianny

I've been in many primary schools never met a bursar, or a school manager. I have met school secretaries who did the whole lot for next to nothing. I wonder if it's an Academies thing? Posh titles like public schools?
I do know what bursars are in universities and private schools. But as I said not in state primaries. And I've been in all sizes. From 3 form intakes to part time teaching heads.

No it’s not just academies-but maybe it is applicable to different parts of the country.
My experience at sundry primaries for what it’s worth,
In a Norfolk primary, I was introduced to the Business Manager.
In Southampton I met-bursars or business manager with or without additional secretarial staff depending on size of school
Greater Manchester -Business manager or office manager, with or without
additional secretarial staff depending on size of school.
Further north, likewise, plus administrative assistants, school business partner-except in some smaller schools where the title was secretary, even though they did the multitudinous tasks carried out by office managers/bursars plus secretarial tasks.
They’re the more up to date titles, like NQTs are now Early Careers Teachers (ECT).
It doesn’t actually matter whether you know what they’re called, only that they are the people who will connect you with the head or class teachers, unless you can ‘grab one at the end of the day’.

I fully accept it isn't just academies. I do wonder about the North/South divide, which really does exist if you care to look atthe link I provided and I note you haven't been further North than Manchester (which is borderline south for many of us.)

And of course school secretaries have done much of the managing, usually without much in the way of remuneration. I just find the assumption that all schools have "bursars" and even the assumption of the title amusing.Perhaps that's why it hasn't caught on up-North. We recognise bull shit when we see it.

Glorianny
I just find the assumption that all schools have "bursars" and even the assumption of the title amusing.
Who has said all schools have bursars-that’s just your assumption.
That’s as silly and incorrect as your assumption that because I mentioned Manchester I don’t work any further north.

I can certainly recognise your b******t, which evidently means that because you haven’t come across bursars and other titles for the school administration staff, they either don’t exist.
Not sure how many schools and where they are that you have visited, not to have updated your knowledge of what bursars/business managers/ administrators etc do and get paid.

Regardless of all that and your apparent lack of knowledge, the school office staff, whether you have heard of the titles or not are the first line of communication in any school, unless you catch the head in the playground before school, or the class teacher after school.
If you want to be amused by it, I’m sure they won’t care.

Mollygo

Glorianny
I just find the assumption that all schools have "bursars" and even the assumption of the title amusing.
Who has said all schools have bursars-that’s just your assumption.
That’s as silly and incorrect as your assumption that because I mentioned Manchester I don’t work any further north.

I can certainly recognise your b******t, which evidently means that because you haven’t come across bursars and other titles for the school administration staff, they either don’t exist.
Not sure how many schools and where they are that you have visited, not to have updated your knowledge of what bursars/business managers/ administrators etc do and get paid.

Regardless of all that and your apparent lack of knowledge, the school office staff, whether you have heard of the titles or not are the first line of communication in any school, unless you catch the head in the playground before school, or the class teacher after school.
If you want to be amused by it, I’m sure they won’t care.

Sorry Mollygo if you don't recognise the "gentrification" of roles in schools by giving them titles that they never needed I'm not responsible. It is of course closely linked to the lack of involvement of LEAs who were once responsible for much of the admin etc.
If you were to draw a parallel with something you could use the concept of the NHS which is constantly berated for there being too many managers, but apparently more managers are desirable in education.. If they are getting paid more what a waste of money.

As I said look at the report and wonder why the North doesn't have them.
It does amuse me how people imagine that calling someone a bursar or a manager somehow means they are more important.
As for them acting as a means of communication between parents teachers and head teachers, perhaps that's one of the great problems with primary education today

But the north does have bursars. Just because you work at a school that only has a lowly paid secretary, (and I’ve yet to find a school that only has a lowly paid ‘secretary’ nowadays), it doesn’t mean that no other schools in the north have bursars or school business managers or administration assistants or anybody the variety of titles which mean they do more than just secretarial work.

Love your ‘gentrification’. A rather snobby way of explaining words that seem to make you feel uncomfortable.

If you’ve worked in a school recently, you would know that phone calls go to the office, so that the person can be directed to the appropriate member of staff or arrange an appointment. Visitors to the school are greeted by the office staff (bursar/office manager/ school business manager/administration manager/ admin assistant etc,) and directed to the appropriate place, member of staff or enabled to arrange an appointment.
The office staff (bursar/office manager/ school business manager/administration manager/ admin assistant etc,
also respond to parents arriving to collect a child early. All this in addition to the financial and other tasks necessary to keep a school running.
As for them acting as a means of communication between parents teachers and head teachers, perhaps that's one of the great problems with primary education today
The more you say about that, the more obvious it is that you don’t understand the communication, but that’s your problem.
They aren’t like GP receptionists, they don’t make decisions about who you can see and when and what for.
At your school, are you saying that parents walk into the reception area, are ignored by your lowly paid ‘secretary’ and the head senses their presence and immediately abandons phone calls, meetings, dealing with children etc. to go and deal with every parent who arrives? I don’t believe it.

This is an old post. Why are we still talking about it

enabenn

This is an old post. Why are we still talking about it

I don't know what is classified as old?

🤔

Being able to speak in public is a very useful skill and not only for white collar people. Speaking up on the shop floor about safety concerns is important. Parish Councils attract a wide range of backgrounds. Speaking at a planning appeal is often needed. Proposing the toast to the bride and groom. Saying a few words at someone's retirement party.

Thats awful poor boy. I would have been the same at his age I would have hated having to do something like that.

Introverted children or shy children (not the same things) would find this harder than confident extroverted children. It could be a good experience for the children who find it harder - if they got appropriate support and experience before talking to the whole class. Maybe worth looking for a child psychotherapist to help here - this could deal with fears the child hardly knows how to articulate at the moment, and might help him for the years to come. I wish him well and hope the teacher will understand - she is in a challenging spot too, if this in on the curriculum. Some preliminary sessions where e.g. three children make short presentations to each other might help.

I'm not sure why giving presentations is regarded as an essential part of working life tbh! Grandmabatty's options sound very sensible. Listening and speaking are important skills but surely they can be learned in ways other than standing in front of the entire class and giving a presentation.

Why not discuss with the teacher, as a parent, just taking children out of school is not the answer surely. So you can run away from everything that may upset you is what that teaches.

I have always been the same, I'm a social worker so have often had to present cases in court etc & I found I developed a social worker face, a sort of professional manner in which I could do it. Could he learn a similar persona at school? Maybe starting with tiny bits read from a paper?

your grandson would benefit from drama after school. Maybe on a Saturday. It’s particularly good for shy children. If you can find someone that teaches lamda or English speaking board, he will be encouraged and gradually get over this fear. My sons are Doctors and often thank me for this as they were able to do presentations any time as a result of this. Failing this, just acting singing and dancing will get him used to performing to an audience as part of a big friendly group

I had to do this in the 70s (in Scotland) so it's not a new thing. I still remember a couple of my presentations; budgerigars and how to make a proper cup of tea 🙄, I'm sure my classmates were enthralled.

It is a very real phobia and I experienced it so I know. As a young child I had loads of confidence loved reading in class acting etc etc, couldn’t wait to get on stage and then at 13 I was chosen to give assembly as an experiment although I knew the head mistress was not keen on me but she allowed it. Well half way through the Bible reading I looked up and saw the school looking at me in rapt attention and I completely lost it and started laughing. I could not go on. The head beamingly put her arm round me and said she’d give me a house mark for trying. I have not trusted myself giving speech since. I even did drama at uni to overcome it but I didn’t as soon as I faced a crowd I was incapacitated by fear. It is visceral it’s not rational. If it is affecting him physically it is cruel to force him.