Soup throwing again

LiverLover

I kinda see what she means to be fair volver.

You'll have to explain that. Try to do it without libel, there's a challenge for you.

Callistemon21

^I posted a picture of some Nazis and called them Nazis^.

They look like the police to me.

Are you trying to be funny? It's not working,

When did it become OK to deny the existence of Nazis in the 21st century?

202 posts.
143 agreeing with OP
59 opposing OP. All by volver.

Am I supposed to care?

Not going to bother trying to explain why you agree that children aren't safe with me then?

Too hard, was it?

No V3, I agree with you that you’re not supposed to care.

Rosie51

Glorianny There are police at the New Zealand rally they eventually take her away in a police car after escorting her to it.
She obviously also has her own security

team.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsKn5XeJkWY

Whatever you think about KJK do you honestly believe this was justifiable? I'm horrified at this violent baying mob. They're like a load of pack animals baying for blood. They want her out but surround her in a crush trying to get to her. If you think this is acceptable behaviour then you disgust me as much as that mob. Those crowds stormed the barriers that were to separate them from the rotunda. I can't see any police that enforced the barriers, can you? No as Jumblygran confirmed in her post they were a distance away, and didn't make themselves available until they were almost to the police cars.
Given that there were efforts to refuse her entry visa on the grounds her presence could promote disruption and violence wouldn't you think there'd have been a strong police presence near to the rotunda maintaining distance between speakers and protestors?
Incidentally the Nazis loved cross dressers, there are photos of Nazi soldiers cross dressing. As for 'no true feminist' that's akin to 'no true Scotsman' or according to Humza 'no true transwoman'

Really Rosie51 your dismissal of the horrific treatment of people the Nazis described as "deviant" is worrying and completely unacceptable. For the first time this year the German parliament dedicated Holocaust Day to the thousands of LGBTQ people who died or were tortured under the Nazis. Many Jewish people supported this. I suggest you read this and then apologise to those who suffered www.france24.com/en/live-news/20230127-in-a-first-german-parliament-spotlights-nazis-lgbtq-victims

The Nazis "loved cross dressers". If someone was to post a similar statement about Jews, using for example the Jewish orchestras in the concentration camps there would be an uproar.

And I'm sorry if you are preaching hate and division and denying the existence of a group of people you shouldn't be surprised if that group of people and their supporters choose to make sure you aren't permitted to spread hate speech.
It was the actions of communists, labour party members and left wing individuals who joined with Jews to silence the fascists in the East End of London that showed how unacceptable the Nazi philosophy was. The Battle of Cable Street silenced fascists using similar methods.

Oh Glorianny I've been trying to think how to mention Cable Street without bringing down hellfire and brimstone on my head, and you've done it. Well done. Thank you.

Well done Glorianny. You managed to bring Germany and Cable street in whilst not condemning the violence against females.

volver3

Callistemon21

Out of absolutely nowhere, hours later, I get told I'm a danger to children

I didn't say you were.

Stop it Callistemon. You're not the only poster here and out of nowhere, somebody I don't remember interacting with, said that children needed protecting from people like me.

You said in a post where you were referring to what I had posted in the first sentence and the third.
Perhaps your posts should be clearer.

Thanks glammagran, I see now your post had been deleted so I realise that must be the offending one to which volver was referring in her post which seemed to be addressed to me.

All is clearer now 🙂

volver3 Thanks. You've been brilliant throughout the thread.
I've been busy most of the day and just come back to this thread.
I don't understand how anyone who cares about women can possibly permit this woman to speak for them. Her links to the far right are seriously worrying

Mollygo

Well done Glorianny. You managed to bring Germany and Cable street in whilst not condemning the violence against females.

I don't care if it is a man or a woman promoting hate speech, if the people they are attacking choose to prevent them speaking who am I to deny them that right?
It wasn't a riotous protest. No one threw missiles or started a fight. It was simply very noisy.
Quite why Poppy chose the route she did for her exit I don't know. Her arrival was through a fenced off area.

How in any universe can linking Jewish orchestras in concentration camps to Nazis cross dressing be acceptable? Are you suggesting cross dressing Nazis were forced on peril of death to dress up. Of course you aren’t so don’t do it

Glorianny

And I'm sorry if you are preaching hate and division and denying the existence of a group of people you shouldn't be surprised if that group of people and their supporters choose to make sure you aren't permitted to spread hate speech.
It was the actions of communists, labour party members and left wing individuals who joined with Jews to silence the fascists in the East End of London that showed how unacceptable the Nazi philosophy was. The Battle of Cable Street silenced fascists using similar methods.

So dreadful then, that our Allies who helped us to defeat Hitler's Nazis then invaded half of Europe bringing their own regime of terror which continued for many years.

Please do not lecture me about the fight against Nazism.

volver3

Wait, what?

People get upset if I call actual Nazis, Nazis. But we're allowed to get paranoid about what the schools are doing to our children and call it Nazi-ism?

I though we didn't bring "Nazi" into anything, it was frowned upon...?

Are you deliberately being obtuse Volver?

Referring to the Nazi party by their actual name, is quite different to invoking the word Nazi to label unknown people!

Iam64

How in any universe can linking Jewish orchestras in concentration camps to Nazis cross dressing be acceptable? Are you suggesting cross dressing Nazis were forced on peril of death to dress up. Of course you aren’t so don’t do it

I didn't. I said it would be the equivalent to Rosie51s post.

Here's a clear explanation
If as Rosie51 claims Nazis cross dressing is evidence that they didn't persecute and kill LGBTQ people.
Then a similar argument could be made
That the Nazis didn't persecute Jews because there are photographs of Jews dressed up and playing in an orchestra.
Both statements are unacceptable and wrong.
The first for some inexplicable reason seems to be more acceptable to some people

Did she walk the wrong way. Oh well she was asking for it.
'Permit her to speak for them' . What on earth are you talking about. I speak for myself. Do some of the most prominent proponents of TWAW speak for you when they say women who dont shave their legs are dirty, or when they say terfs die in a fire, etc etc. And you know what if people were threatening them with violence I would say that's not acceptable.

Its unacceptable to say a man who rapes, whose penis we can see, who is getting kicks from showing said penis (a red flag for future crimes) is a woman. Its bigotry, its unbelievably cruel, its gas lighting, so I probably am not going going to be told about correct speech from people who do that. I am laughing in fact it's so absurd.

I would like to point out again..... The Only 2 Crimes Committed At The Rally were committed by trans activist, who are yet to be even questioned by the NZ police.

The law has to be fair to all parties.

Callistemon21

Glorianny

And I'm sorry if you are preaching hate and division and denying the existence of a group of people you shouldn't be surprised if that group of people and their supporters choose to make sure you aren't permitted to spread hate speech.
It was the actions of communists, labour party members and left wing individuals who joined with Jews to silence the fascists in the East End of London that showed how unacceptable the Nazi philosophy was. The Battle of Cable Street silenced fascists using similar methods.

So dreadful then, that our Allies who helped us to defeat Hitler's Nazis then invaded half of Europe bringing their own regime of terror which continued for many years.

Please do not lecture me about the fight against Nazism.

Sorry Callistemon are you referring to the Soviet Union's post war activities?
If so I suggest you read about the deal Churchill did with Stalin.
www.nytimes.com/1973/08/05/archives/churchill-stalin-made-polish-deal.html#:~:text=4%20(AP)%E2%80%94Wartime%20papers,Far%20East%20and%20the%20Mediterranean.
The Soviet Union in 1945 was in a dreadful state, Churchill traded them Europe for the Far East and the Med.
There was a real possibility that both Greece and Italy would elect communist governments. The actions taken in Greece were particularly horrific.

But in Cable Street the Nazis were supported by the police and the establishment.

Glorianny for your information my father took part, as an east end child, in the Cable Street battle, and I have Jewish relatives. I wasn't meaning to express anything other than the inconsistency of the Nazi approach, but I agree it was a thoughtless comment and I regret making it.
You however haven't commented on the video I linked to that gives the lie to your blasé comment that There are police at the New Zealand rally they eventually take her away in a police car after escorting her to it You condone the baying mob who are so fired up with aggression and violent intent. KJK doesn't speak for me, I disagree with many of her views but she's not a Nazi, and I won't agree that violence as seen in the video is ever justified. That you do, and apparently Volver doesn't object to it either, sickens me. Just in case you claim to have missed it here's the link again. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsKn5XeJkWY

Violence is never the answer.

Glorianny

Mollygo

Well done Glorianny. You managed to bring Germany and Cable street in whilst not condemning the violence against females.

I don't care if it is a man or a woman promoting hate speech, if the people they are attacking choose to prevent them speaking who am I to deny them that right?
It wasn't a riotous protest. No one threw missiles or started a fight. It was simply very noisy.
Quite why Poppy chose the route she did for her exit I don't know. Her arrival was through a fenced off area.

It wasn't a riotous protest. No one threw missiles or started a fight. It was simply very noisy. For goodness' sake when will you stop with the lies? It's all on the video, the rotunda was surrounded, there was no way out. Have you even looked at the video or are you just making it up?

If as Rosie51 claims Nazis cross dressing is evidence that they didn't persecute and kill LGBTQ people. How dare you! I claimed no such thing, that's your twisted interpretation, and I'm not at all sure it's not completely intentional.

Rosie51

Glorianny for your information my father took part, as an east end child, in the Cable Street battle, and I have Jewish relatives. I wasn't meaning to express anything other than the inconsistency of the Nazi approach, but I agree it was a thoughtless comment and I regret making it.
You however haven't commented on the video I linked to that gives the lie to your blasé comment that There are police at the New Zealand rally they eventually take her away in a police car after escorting her to it You condone the baying mob who are so fired up with aggression and violent intent. KJK doesn't speak for me, I disagree with many of her views but she's not a Nazi, and I won't agree that violence as seen in the video is ever justified. That you do, and apparently Volver doesn't object to it either, sickens me. Just in case you claim to have missed it here's the link again. www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsKn5XeJkWY

Rosie51 I ignored your video. Taken from Poppy's website and carefully cut and edited to make it seem much worse. It does explain why she chose to leave where she did. Best camera detail. There is a more accurate video showing her arrival and the police escorting her out earlier in this thread.
I don't like propaganda.

If as Rosie51 claims Nazis cross dressing is evidence that they didn't persecute and kill LGBTQ people. How dare you! I claimed no such thing, that's your twisted interpretation, and I'm not at all sure it's not completely intentional
So why did you introduce this subject to the thread directly after my statement about how the Nazis persecuted trans-people? .