Drag Queens

People in marginalised groups are actually people, with all the flaws and qualities that come with being human.

Galaxy

People in marginalised groups are actually people, with all the flaws and qualities that come with being human.

Yes I know, it's depressing and not logical

But is story time at a library encouraging children to read? It is what it is 'story time' where someone else reads a book to the children. Some children who hate reading with a reading scheme will love story time because it allows them to listen to a story for enjoyment and relaxation. What argument would be put forward if the dame from a panto came in to read to children? Is this also not the portrayal of a domineering older woman, usually a mother, by a man dressed in a larger than life costume showing his stripy bloomers and hitching up his boobs as he addresses an audience comprising whole families? Where does the argument stop?
I think the idea of storytime in libraries is to get children interested in books - maybe if they are from families where reading isn't particularly encouraged they might be encouraged to try it. It will also familiarise them with libraries, which may also be strange to them.

I can't answer about the pantomime dame. I've never heard of one coming into a library or school. If it happened, I suppose it would be to encourage children to attend a panto - but it's not likely, as in pantomime season the actors would be onstage twice a day.

Is it not our job as adults to explain to children exactly what is going on and also asking what dress the 'reader' will appear in and which text they will be reading to the children? The senior librarian or English Co-Ordinator at a primary school should be doing their job by putting in front of children people and books that promote positive role models and events.
Yes, I think so, but I guess this is happening because councils and LEAs are in the thrall of Stonewall, who will sell the idea as being inclusive and positive. If the council/LEA wants to get (or hang onto) Diversity Champion status this sort of thing will probably help with that, too.

Men displaying their sexual fetiches to children in public - such a vulnerable and marginalised group.

t.co/viV0pwoTKg

VioletSky

Try to remember that many drag queens are gay men. LGBTQ people have often stood against gender norms and have fought alongside women for equality

www.lgbtqandall.com/what-is-a-drag-queen/

What has that got to do with males parodying females to young children?
Does it matter whether they’re gay or not? We have gay teachers in school, but they don’t parody the opposite sex when they’re in school. Those I know, don’t parody the opposite sex out of school either.
Perhaps those you know act differently, but it doesn’t make the behaviour of those mentioned in the OP any more acceptable.
For those supporting the drag actions mentioned as being ‘acceptable as inclusive’, where does your ‘inclusive’ stop.
Would you consider naturists demonstrating their ‘diversity’ suitable for story reading to primary children,
or males in mankinis, or females in thong bikinis showing off their body parts, all claiming to promote diversity by reading stories to young children.

If teachers or TAs at your school VS, or at any other primary school that Gransnetters know of, appeared in overtly sexual clothing like that, would the head welcome them as celebrating inclusivity or diversity?

BeverleyJB

Men displaying their sexual fetiches to children in public - such a vulnerable and marginalised group.

t.co/viV0pwoTKg

That's very worrying.

Good grief Beverly JB that's horrendous. I've heard of similar instances but none quite as bad as that. Hiding in plain sight.

I hate pedophiles with a passion. If there was a button to make every single one of them have a slow agonizing death, I'd push it

1 in 20 people experience some sort of sexual abuse as a child. It's a terrifying disgusting statistic, it really is.

But one thing I will never do is hold up a pedophile and use them to provoke fear or hatred to any group and they exist in every group, male and female.

Any person working with children should be subject to DBS and even then no record means deemed safe.

But trying to claim any group as sexual predators is wrong on so many levels

The truth is children are most at risk of sexual abuse within their own families. And that's the first place children should be protected

That’s appalling, but not so surprising really.

While people are excusing things as ‘inclusive’ and ‘diversity’ there will continue to be more of these instances.
As VS says children are most at risk of sexual abuse within their own families. And that's the first place children should be protected
That should not be used as a reason to justify and not to protect children from males displaying their sexual fetiches to children in public

Not rising to that

Gross

Another merry go round of word twisting and narrative changing I need to get off because pedophiles genuinely are disturbing and upsetting to me and any thoughts otherwise just proves every point I ever make about the threads that attract the people doing it

Who asked you to rise VS? It was a general post and since you don’t answer my questions . . .
However I agree it’s gross VS, but people are justifying DQs wanting to parody females in front of young children, rather than to protect children. And now we hear that some of them are sex offenders.
What is more gross than that?

VioletSky

How can a majority of gay men doing drag be homophobic?

There are straight drag queens but very few

How can a majority of gay men doing drag be homophobic?

WHO said it was a majority?

Drag queens are people. They are not all gay..

For some, it is a performance which is not continued off-stage, for others, it is.

They, like everyone else, have prejudices and biases. Not all drag queens are 'friendly' to the gay community - some of their mimicry and impersonation is of gays as it is of women.

They can also be racist.

What I'm trying to tell you is that drag does not of itself make an individual a beacon of tolerance and inclusivity!

Coming in late to this discussion.

If it’s story time and getting to enjoy books then it’s totally irrelevant to have a drag Queen reading. It adds nothing to the enjoyment of the book.

So the purpose has to be diversity. In which case the book becomes irrelevant. It’s all about the inclusion.

I dislike one thing parading as another to draw children in. There’s a basic dishonesty there that should be mistrusted.

I wouldn’t object to “Come and spend some time with a drag Queen” in a Hall somewhere. But drag in a Library? I can’t see the relevance.

And on a different tack.

The majority of drag queens are straight.

What’s my evidence for that? Well none.

It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.

That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

Maybe this should be on the 'cats' thread, but I can't find it. I just wonder at what point do adults step up and say 'enough!'?

Storytime is aimed at younger children, but teens need to rebel. They need to separate from adults and identify with one another, and find their 'tribe'. That used to be easy. You became a goth, (or a punk or a hippy), or you rolled up your skirt and shortened your school tie - whatever it was, the point was for adults to disapprove. Sensible adults knew this, and feigned disapproval so their children could feel 'cool' and that they were rebelling, even though they were doing nothing outrageous really.

Now that so many adults seem to want to be friends with children, rather than responsible for them, anything goes. 'Inclusivity' and 'diversity' are the new gods, and nobody is setting boundaries. There is nothing to rebel against any more.

Yes, everyone should be accepted, and only those on the fringes would want to see a return to the sort of blanket disapproval of anything outside of a narrow range of 'acceptability' that was once the norm; but if we have moved from a situation when having pink hair was rebellious to teachers answering to meows from kids who claim to be cats surely things have gone too far?

Why not let teenagers feel that they are cooler than their teachers and parents (or whatever the term for 'cool' is now)? We can't be their friends - they don't want that, and nor should we. Not until they have grown up, that is.

Sorry - punctuation failure in there, but I hope it makes sense.

The majority of drag queens are straight.
What’s my evidence for that? Well none.
It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.
That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

Seems fair!

Beetlejuice

^The majority of drag queens are straight.^
What’s my evidence for that? Well none.
It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.
That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

Seems fair!

Well yes. So often on here we hear that X% of trans children or Y% of transwomen do Z, and this is more of the same. We Don’t Know, and unless there is ever a register of transpeople or drag queens We Never Will.
It just suits the purposes of those who want to make a point to make spurious claims that fit their generalisations.

Lathyrus

And on a different tack.

The majority of drag queens are straight.

What’s my evidence for that? Well none.

It’s about as accurate as “The majority are gay”.

That is, it’s come out of my own head but I’m posting it as fact😬

It’s as factual as some of the things we are fed as facts to justify cats or moons or drag or diversity or inclusive.
😬

I don't understand how drag queens can be seen as inclusive. A lot if these who o into school have offensive names, Aida H Dee, Flo Job etc. Their clothes, make-up, strutting all parody women. Not in a comfortable mumsy way, like panto,but very sexually. Young children are naturally wary around oversexualised stuff and we should listen. I wouldn't want my child seeing bondage gear or a stripper in a library or school, why would I want her to see a swaying, pouting parody of a woman?

It's also true that paedophiles put themselves into positions where they can chat to kids. Safeguarding isn't always thorough. AidaHDee, one of the favourites at DQSH raised money for a dear friend's funeral. Turned out the friend was a convicted paedophile. That should have been picked up in the Safeguarding check.
My other concern is the way in which sexuality, if only the swaying and pouting, is being normalised. This makes a child less wary of inappropriate behaviour. This clip illustrates the point. Just look at the children's faces.
twitter.com/therealhebrahim/status/1672957098705973248?t=L6vM3lXBXxTkrwTJq3IUAw&s=19

I agree that it is important not to confuse children’s instincts about what is and isn’t ‘normal’, NJA. Calling men ‘she’, having someone with exaggerated female characteristics but a deep voice, an Adam’s apple and hairy arms read to them - those things get in the way of their ability to sense danger (as they can do for adults).

Before someone reminds us all that there are real women with deep voices and hairy arms, I know - but they will also have female shoulders and are unlikely to have a five o’clock shadow too. Even young children, like animals, can tell the difference between men and women. Instincts are there for a reason, and blurring the lines is dangerous. As you say, it can dull their sense of what is and isn’t appropriate.

It will also blur the lines between who can and can’t be trusted, which is very troubling. Children need to have faith in their parents and carers to tell the truth and keep them safe.