Drag Queens

Beetlejuice

I think I can see why a larger than life fictional character, such as a clown or a fairy or a cowboy etc might be used to attract children to a library. Their colourful costumes, funny makeup and props would be seen as huge fun to children and it sparks their imagination to explore further. Which I suppose is why I'm struggling with drag queens exhorting children to wink, wiggle their bottoms and sway their hips.

Exactly. Someone dressed as the Gruffalo, or as the Hungry Caterpillar would be entirely appropriate to read a story about those characters. A random drag queen telling a story about hip swaying and bottom wiggling is, IMO, entirely inappropriate.

So if we can see it, why can't they?

Smileless2012

So if we can see it, why can't they?

Oh, I'm sure they can. It's all about normalising cross-dressing and teaching children that a man can be a woman if he wants to.

I'm not sure what the endgame is in all of this, but whatever it is doesn't have women at its heart.

Or children Doodledog; they seem to be a means to an end.

This is what it is about.
The idea behind having drag queens read to children in libraries and schools is to promote inclusivity and celebrate diversity in a fun and engaging way. Drag queens are performers who use clothing, makeup, and style to express themselves creatively, and their presence can help challenge traditional gender norms and encourage acceptance. It's not about "conditions" or specific identities, but about teaching kids that everyone should be respected and embraced for who they are.

Very little to do with encouraging children to read.

Drag is performance or art

Trans is gender identity

They are not the same thing

But when boys went to school in skirts a year or two ago at one school because it was very hot there was an uproar !!!!
Scratches head in disbelief

eazybee

This is what it is about.
The idea behind having drag queens read to children in libraries and schools is to promote inclusivity and celebrate diversity in a fun and engaging way. Drag queens are performers who use clothing, makeup, and style to express themselves creatively, and their presence can help challenge traditional gender norms and encourage acceptance. It's not about "conditions" or specific identities, but about teaching kids that everyone should be respected and embraced for who they are.

Very little to do with encouraging children to read.

Yes, it is clear that there is an ulterior motive behind all this. It is not about encouraging reading, and it would be better if the people behind the concept were honest about what their motives actually are. The problem, as we have seen, is that not everyone agrees that drag 'challenges gender norms' at all - some (including me) feel that it reinforces them, but it doesn't seem that this is open to discussion.

Smileless2012

That would be good Beetlejuice. Is there anyone who agrees that trans queens are challenging patriarchy and if so, could you say why?

I believe drag queens (or perhaps some of them) are challenging the status-quo, specifically the accepted nuclear family as a basic social unit. So indirectly one could say they are challenging patriarchy.

My discomfort with drag is the distorted impersonation - sometimes almost grotesque - of women (drag artists used to be known as "female impersonators" back in the day), and of gays. My instinctive feeling is that it is a form of misogyny, in the same way that non-transitioned trans women with male genitalia insisting that they are also women, is another form of misogyny.

It's a gut reaction, I admit, and not the result of any deep thought on the matter.

I am in favour of exploring gender identity and questioning stereotypes. I think many of us might have done that anyway subconsciously when in our youth we rebelled against society's expectations of how we were supposed to behave, as women. But, as a feminist, I do not like the fact that men seem to be in charge of the narrative.

VioletSky

Drag is performance or art

Trans is gender identity

They are not the same thing

I don’t see any suggestion ‘they are the same thing’. You aren’t alone in seeing complexity. As trans people live amongst us, I find it unlikely that they won’t feature in the drag community.

The issue here is that the majority are unhappy about the promotion of drag performers as readers, over and above lovely people like my sister, a retired teacher who volunteers in schools. She supports children who have identified sen, she and the children enjoy her sessions, teachers value it. Nothing challenging or complex, or needing particular attention to safeguarding
Some may say it’s boring and doesn’t expose the children to diversity to have her, rather than a drag Queen but - I bet teaches children and parents much prefer the securit and experience she brings

VioletSky

Drag is performance or art

Trans is gender identity

They are not the same thing

Drag is performance or art

For some drag artists, it's a little bit more than that. It is a movement challenging accepted norms. Some have been quite outspoken about it.

And, in that respect, it is connected to gender identity.

And the narrative is conducted and controlled - by men.

Try to remember that many drag queens are gay men. LGBTQ people have often stood against gender norms and have fought alongside women for equality

www.lgbtqandall.com/what-is-a-drag-queen/

Doodledog

eazybee

This is what it is about.
The idea behind having drag queens read to children in libraries and schools is to promote inclusivity and celebrate diversity in a fun and engaging way. Drag queens are performers who use clothing, makeup, and style to express themselves creatively, and their presence can help challenge traditional gender norms and encourage acceptance. It's not about "conditions" or specific identities, but about teaching kids that everyone should be respected and embraced for who they are.

Very little to do with encouraging children to read.

Yes, it is clear that there is an ulterior motive behind all this. It is not about encouraging reading, and it would be better if the people behind the concept were honest about what their motives actually are. The problem, as we have seen, is that not everyone agrees that drag 'challenges gender norms' at all - some (including me) feel that it reinforces them, but it doesn't seem that this is open to discussion.

But is story time at a library encouraging children to read? It is what it is 'story time' where someone else reads a book to the children. Some children who hate reading with a reading scheme will love story time because it allows them to listen to a story for enjoyment and relaxation. What argument would be put forward if the dame from a panto came in to read to children? Is this also not the portrayal of a domineering older woman, usually a mother, by a man dressed in a larger than life costume showing his stripy bloomers and hitching up his boobs as he addresses an audience comprising whole families? Where does the argument stop? Is it not our job as adults to explain to children exactly what is going on and also asking what dress the 'reader' will appear in and which text they will be reading to the children? The senior librarian or English Co-Ordinator at a primary school should be doing their job by putting in front of children people and books that promote positive role models and events.

Try to remember that many gay men dislike drag as well.

Galaxy

Try to remember that many gay men dislike drag as well.

Sure

Some gay men love broccoli and some don't

But that's not the point

Gay men aren't generally sexist against women and they certainly aren't sexualising children unless we've gone back to the 80s

Gay men are men they are in my experience sexist and not sexist in equal measures.

Galaxy

Try to remember that many gay men dislike drag as well.

Try to remember that many gay men dislike drag as well.

Exactly.

And it would do well 'to remember' that drag queens are people who live in our society and can also be racist, homophobic, misogynistic, and transphobic.

Equal measures?

This surprises me, I've never had that experience

How can a majority of gay men doing drag be homophobic?

There are straight drag queens but very few

It's like saying men with ginger hair arent sexist in my view, some are some arent.

I didn't say that none are sexist at any point

I'm just disputing equal measure or 50/50

What basis is there for that statistic?

As I said in my experience it would be a hell of a specific range of statistics.
I cant imagine anyone has ever looked into it but I may be wrong.

It's not logical really, it always depresses me when any marginalised group does not support another

But thankfully that's not been my experience in friendship groups and I haven't had to fall out with anyone over it

Don’t you ever get chilly up in the moral high ground

I have been trying to think of a female portrayal of the kind of parody that drag queens provide. The only one I have come up with is the crass lechers in the French and Saunders sketches.