Drag Queens

Well they're not 'dressed up women' that's for sure Doodledog.

It's true I'm afraid. It's not drag but it illustrates how adults can, knowingly or not, sexualise their dressing up costumes for children. Redbridge Council thought that it was a good idea to introduce it as a way to encourage children to read.

Smileless2012

Well they're not 'dressed up women' that's for sure Doodledog.

No, and the shots were taken from the first video on YouTube when I Googled 'drag queen reading hour', so they weren't selectively chosen.

CraftyGranny

How long will it be before paedophiles are reading stories to children. How well are these drag queens vetted to be near children?

Why are you bringing up paedophiles in a thread about drag queens?

When people on here say they help out in schools you have never said that you hope they are properly vetted, disgusting that you are insinuating there is more chance that a drag queen could be a paedophile.

That's good to know Doodledog just in case there are accusations being deliberately selective.

Beetlejuice

Quite agree with you regarding the demonstrators Wyllow3, violence and anger has no place where children are. However, I have some empathy with the parents of the children here. In one such demonstration, parents were, quite rightly in my opinion, outraged when a man dressed in a monkey outfit, complete with exposed buttocks and a 12" dildo, arrived at Goodmayes Library in Redbridge, East London, to read to children in a story hour. Now who, in the name of God ever thought that that was appropriate? If your child had been exposed to that, wouldn't you be angry and want to know who was responsible for it?

Some wonder why children are in Christian schools?

BlueBelle

Willow there’s a vast difference between girls dressed as men or vice versa in say a Shakespearian play or even the original type of dame in a panto these drag artists have huge eyelashes huge lips huge falling out bosoms and bums usually very sexualised clothing and demolish any type of genuine acting They are taking the p out of womanhood and they are taking the p out of genuine trans women

Who is the head master or mistress in these schools because basically I wouldn’t want them near my children

Not all drag is like that. Drag culture covers a very wide spectrum and drag queens (and kings) come in all shapes and sizes. You have some very feminine queens who you'd be hard pressed to tell weren't 'real' women, 'look' queens who are all about the fashion, right up to the more gothic and 'shock' queens.

I am aware that there can sometimes be a tendency to produce and extreme example (like the monkey) to justify, "we shouldn't allow this at all".

That clearly isn't OK.

However the mode of arguing a point, by producing extreme examples as proof does make me uneasy, as it "tars all with the same brush".

I am concerned that only showing/alluding to the extreme "example" that brings out the demonstrators outside the library, assuming something dreadful is taking place there, whipping up fear.

I think what is damaging is the access children have to the extremes - lies, fantasies, hatred, mocking, bullying - sometimes of each other - on social media then in a controlled environment where questions can be asked and appropriately answered

Smileless2012

PLEASE tell me that this isn't true Beetlejuice, it's gross.

Oh it is true. That thing was actually on display at the library in question.

I would have been against drag queens reading to my children when they were young and in school. Certainly when they were aged 5 years and upwards. Also I have those same feelings for my grand-children.
Schools for many years have been very forward thinking and nothing wrong with that and we are well aware that in this day and age we are all well aware of the rights of inclusivity of LGBT+Q which is a progression of the times.
I do not see any need for Drag Queens to be around our young children, what is wrong with the every day use of the volunteer reading people that go in and help out with children learning to read?
I think that every one that assists and helps out with children be it in schools or libraries or wherever should be checked and carefully vetted before they can go near the children.
I have noticed that a poster said something about someone saying a drag queen could be a paedophile . I would just point out something that is truthful and was brought to the attention of parents at a school I know of. A teacher in the school was of a high position unfortunately in her spare time she met an ex offender who was on the sex register and had been in prison for offences against children.
The teacher never brought this offender into the school and no children ever came to harm because of her affair although witnesses said he had picked her up from school in his car several times. Everything came to light and she lost her job, quite rightly so I would say.
I have always been cautious about my children and the grand-children and much of these forward thinking ideas do not sit well with me.

VioletSky

I'm only intolerant of intolerance

Wyllow posted an article that explains the difference better than I could

But in general, you know I prefer not to chat to you because of the personal nature of your comments doodledog

There are massive differences between

tolerating sinful behaviour

and not loving someone

The first one we shouldnt do

The second one we should do

No one that I can see has adopted "the mode of arguing a point, by producing extreme examples" to tar "all with the same brush" Wyllow.

For me, what's important is that there appears to have been no, or little fore thought with regard to this issue. Much like schools enabling pupils to choose their pronouns and identify as the opposite sex.

Last October I think it was, Doodledog asked where this could lead, could schools end up having to cope with children identifying as animals. She was told by another poster that it was either pathetic or ridiculous, but she was right wasn't she.

I agree with you about what is damaging children in terms of extremes. Lies and fantasy when it comes to schools 'accepting' a pupil who says they're a cat involving both staff and class mates. That 'boys can have periods'; boys can be girls and girls can be boys.

Drag queens mock womanhood. How women look; what they wear in terms of makeup, hair styles and clothes; what they say and how they behave.

The picture of the grotesque 'monkey' outfit raises the question who if anyone, is monitoring this? Who on earth allowed this person dressed as they were, to read to children?

Not much in terms of a controlled environment or an environment where questions asked would be answered appropriately, where anyone arriving in a costume like that would be considered acceptable.

Beatlejuice, did everyone just let that go? I would have gone to the papers asking for the person who sanctioned such a spectacle to be answerable. Someone in that organising body is warped and with an Agenda, to just let that go will lead on to other things. There’s not a lot that shocks me but I would find that offensive and vulgar and complain myself, but to expose that to little children is unforgivable, they obviously dislike children in East London

I’ve just seen the picture, it’s horrifying and would frighten children.

It's vile isn't it Allsorts.

Wyllow3

I am aware that there can sometimes be a tendency to produce and extreme example (like the monkey) to justify, "we shouldn't allow this at all".

That clearly isn't OK.

However the mode of arguing a point, by producing extreme examples as proof does make me uneasy, as it "tars all with the same brush".

I am concerned that only showing/alluding to the extreme "example" that brings out the demonstrators outside the library, assuming something dreadful is taking place there, whipping up fear.

*I think what is damaging is the access children have to the extremes - lies, fantasies, hatred, mocking, bullying - sometimes of each other - on social media then in a controlled environment where questions can be asked and appropriately answered*

Wyllow, I have asked what you would consider an acceptable level of drag to be showcased to children, and how that would differ from the Ru Paul type that you say you would not allow.

The monkey is an extreme example, but it still happened, and the ones I posted were, as I say, from the first video that popped up on Google - I have better things to do than scour the Internet for a range of images of drag queens . AKAIK they are not 'extreme examples', and in any case, what is the point of 'dragging up' if it is not extreme? The point of this is not that a transwoman who usually 'passes' as female is reading to children. It is about drag, not transpeople, and drag is a parody of femininity.

It is worrying that this is attracting opposition from extremists such as Turning Point. As many of us have been saying for ages, a side effect of trans extremism is that 'ordinary' transpeople get caught up in the reaction against it, which is neither fair nor desirable.

fancythat

VioletSky

I'm only intolerant of intolerance

Wyllow posted an article that explains the difference better than I could

But in general, you know I prefer not to chat to you because of the personal nature of your comments doodledog

There are massive differences between

tolerating sinful behaviour

and not loving someone

The first one we shouldnt do

The second one we should do

Who decides what behaviour is 'sinful'?

God

Wyllow3

I am aware that there can sometimes be a tendency to produce and extreme example (like the monkey) to justify, "we shouldn't allow this at all".

That clearly isn't OK.

So you consider yourself the arbiter of what’s OK?
Some sick people obviously thought the monkey was OK. You think it clearly isn't OK.
IMO men parodying women for young children isn’t OK.
Even less OK in the current climate of males pretending to be females.
*Blondiescot mentions
Not all drag is like that. Drag culture covers a very wide spectrum and drag queens (and kings) come in all shapes and sizes. You have some very feminine queens who you'd be hard pressed to tell weren't 'real' women

And we’re immediately back to males pretending to be females.
Sorry Blondiescot I can’t find any evidence of ‘drag’ where males don’t dress as a parody of women.

Drag never used to bother me. Fun if you liked it, Lily Savage, Danny La Rue, Dame Edna etc but now it looks as if it’s insidiously being used to allow males pretending to be ‘women’, whether in flamboyant costumes or not, to promote the idea that men can be women to children too young to understand that it’s a lie.

I wonder what the reaction would be if women decided to dress as exaggerated versions of men, with extra large ... well everythings, which is what drag queens do as 'women.'

OurKid1

I wonder what the reaction would be if women decided to dress as exaggerated versions of men, with extra large ... well everythings, which is what drag queens do as 'women.'

I think we have more sense.
Besides, apart from adding an exaggerated codpiece, and flaunting an overinflated ego, what could we do?
And would women turn out to see women parodying men or would they stick to indulging fantasies by watching well built males?
As for the reaction? It would be seized upon by the noxious group of TW, and TRA and their fans as an excuse or justification to do more of what they’re doing already.
I can hear the whinging from the above groups already.
Well if they can do that, why shouldn’t we?

FannyCornforth

I didn’t know that you were dyslexic VS.
That must help you with teaching phonics.
I have dyscalculia (only recently discovered) and I realise that it made me a very good teacher of numeracy to children who struggled with it.
I couldn’t cope at all with the bright maths kids though!

???

I'm not dyslexic? Where has this come from?

Staceyann

Obviously it’s everyone’s prerogative to be on this site or not, but I think when I was 48 (almost 30 yrs ago!) , teaching, and with young children at home, it’s the last place I’d have time for, or choose to be.

I'm not a teacher either?

VioletSky

FannyCornforth

I didn’t know that you were dyslexic VS.
That must help you with teaching phonics.
I have dyscalculia (only recently discovered) and I realise that it made me a very good teacher of numeracy to children who struggled with it.
I couldn’t cope at all with the bright maths kids though!

???

I'm not dyslexic? Where has this come from?

That might be my mistake, if not. I thought it was one of the many things you have said apply to you - it's not easy to keep track.

Returning to the photograph of the 'monkey' surely appearing in such a costume is an offence against public decency, in a public place where children were expected to be present. Was this person really encouraged to take place in an activity to encourage children to read?