What is a lesbian?

'won't'

Fleurpepper No-one has said that no lesbians are allowed to have relationships with transwomen if they want to. The operative clause here is "if they want to". What has been said again and again is that ^this event was set up for women lesbians to speed date women lesbians and that the organisers were asked by attenders not to extend that to the aggressively male transwomen who demanded places. If there were any lesbians among the attenders who did want to date the tanswomen, none of them are reported to have said so.

It even seems that they did not in fact ban the transwomen, but requested that they didn't attend.

Elegran

Fleurpepper No-one has said that no lesbians are allowed to have relationships with transwomen if they want to. The operative clause here is "if they want to". What has been said again and again is that ^this event was set up for women lesbians to speed date women lesbians and that the organisers were asked by attenders not to extend that to the aggressively male transwomen who demanded places. If there were any lesbians among the attenders who did want to date the tanswomen, none of them are reported to have said so.

It even seems that they did not in fact ban the transwomen, but requested that they didn't attend.

Yes, someone did- so I replied. Smileless said 'Some lesbians as well as others may believe that trans women are women Glorianny but that doesn't alter the fact that they are men so cannot be lesbians.

People used to believe that the world is flat, but it isn't is it. I am not dictating what people think or what they believe, they can believe what they like, but that doesn't make it true does it.'

and made a ridiculous comparison with flat-earthers!

As for you other point, I totally agree, and have said so several times.

My point is that you can't 'lump' all trans into one big category. If someone has chosen to get rid of all their male attributes, physical and otherwise- like my friends- they are not at all the same as those 'men in lycra with full erection' requesting that lesbians have sex with them. NOT at all the same.

There is no point in people replying to you, FP, as we have all said what we think several times, but you keep repeating that there is a difference between your friends and aggressive transwomen. I am not disputing that, but the fact remains that rules have to be applied across the board, and transwomen are male, so are not lesbians, however many operations they have had.

As your friends are so kindly, the chances are that they would not want to attend an event like this where they are not wanted anyway, so that difference in itself is important. The sort of people who would impose themselves in this way are, by definition, able to be lumped together as disrespectful to women in general and lesbians in particular.

Fleurpepper you always seem so keen to go into such anatomical detail. I understand that you have relatives or friends who have gone for the full treatment and if that’s what they felt they needed, then so be it.
Since you’ve revealed so much I have some things I wonder about, that you might be comfortable answering.
I don’t walk round asking people what sex they are unless they start insisting on pacific pronouns-which is a dead give away.
If someone felt the need to tell me what they’d done, I’d wonder why and I’d still see them as male, but I wouldn’t feel the need to say so unless they asked. The pronoun when in conversation with someone is you so no problem there.
Since your people presumably don’t announce their trans status, it won’t matter.
From what you say about their niceness, it’s unlikely they would be turning up at events where TW have been asked not to attend.
Would they reveal their status to a potential date- e.g. a man who is hoping for a female companion or stay silent in the hope that their new partner wouldn’t find out or wouldn’t care?

Specific pronouns Bxxxxy autocorrect!

"people think or what they believe, they can believe what they like, but that doesn't make it true does it."

Transwomen can believe that fancying women and wanting to have sex with them makes them onto lesbians, but since the definition of a lesbian is a female who is attracted to other female women, and since transwomen are males, then a transwoman who is attracted to female lesbians is not a lesbian herself but a straight man who wants sex with females.

This doesn't preclude him/her from doing so - provided he/she doesn't force or manipulate anyone into taking part in the sex by physical or verbal violence or by deceiving them until they are committed to it.

I don't see what any of that has to do with there being many transwomen like your friends in the trans movement but also a percentage of transwomen who have carried with them into their new persona the attitudes and habits of their macho masculinity

If the organisers of the lesbian dating event could have kept out the macho posers-as-lesbians-but-really-randy-heterosexual males but allowed in the gentle transwomen who were attracted to women, then I am sure they would have done so, but how would they have divided the sheep from the goats?

It was, remember, attenders who objected and asked the organisers to ask transwomen to stay away, because the lesbians did not want the trans women, they wanted untrans ones

Mollygo

Fleurpepper you always seem so keen to go into such anatomical detail. I understand that you have relatives or friends who have gone for the full treatment and if that’s what they felt they needed, then so be it.
Since you’ve revealed so much I have some things I wonder about, that you might be comfortable answering.
I don’t walk round asking people what sex they are unless they start insisting on pacific pronouns-which is a dead give away.
If someone felt the need to tell me what they’d done, I’d wonder why and I’d still see them as male, but I wouldn’t feel the need to say so unless they asked. The pronoun when in conversation with someone is you so no problem there.
Since your people presumably don’t announce their trans status, it won’t matter.
From what you say about their niceness, it’s unlikely they would be turning up at events where TW have been asked not to attend.
Would they reveal their status to a potential date- e.g. a man who is hoping for a female companion or stay silent in the hope that their new partner wouldn’t find out or wouldn’t care?

I honestly don't know. They have all been very opened about their transition- and as friends, neighbours, students- we knew them in their previous life, so there is no secret. I live in a rural area with small and large villages- and everyone knows. Some snigger- most have totally accepted.

Two cases were very in the open. One was local teacher at the local secondary school- the students, staff and parents clearly saw the full transition- and letters were sent by the Governor to explain that Mr X would return in September as Mrs Y.

The other was a senior Council officer- a previously married man and father of two daughters, then divorced. Everyone witnessed the transition and the final result. She is a bit of a character, but fully accepted and respected.

The 3rd, my niece, transitioned as a late teenager- having threatened suicide several times. You would never know, ans she is married to a man- and works in a Care Home, looking after mostly women, wonderfully and much loved and respected.

I don't think fr one minute they would have gone to such an event. but if they did, it would be as 'women' as far as they are concerned- and would never put pressure on anyone to have sex with them or scream discrimination if turned down. They would not have turned up in lycra, and certainly would not, could not have, turned up with visible or not, erection.

Why 'keen to go into anatomical detail' - facts are facts- they no longer have a penis, and do have a functional vagina- quite significant here I believe.

So you would have the organiser line up any transwomen wishing to join the event,to inspect their procreative parts, admit the ones with vaginas and reject the ones with penises - like the peacocks who were strutting their stuff clamouring to be let in to the peahens?

What would have happened then, do you think? Would they have gone home quietly?

I am not saying what people may or may not call themselves Fleurpepper or who consenting adults can have a relationship with.

As you say in your post @ 20.41 "facts are facts" and I'm sorry if it upsets you but the fact is a man may no longer have a penis and have a functional vagina but remains a man because it isn't possible to change sex.

Smileless2012

I am not saying what people may or may not call themselves Fleurpepper or who consenting adults can have a relationship with.

As you say in your post @ 20.41 "facts are facts" and I'm sorry if it upsets you but the fact is a man may no longer have a penis and have a functional vagina but remains a man because it isn't possible to change sex.

Precisely.

Fleurpepper, i imagine it isn’t impossible you’re easily identifiable because of your sm presence
Are you sure your niece and friends are comfortable with the extent of personal information about them you’ve shared here

Yes, there can't be many villages with three fully transitioned transwomen known to all the villagers, can there?

Doodledog

Yes, there can't be many villages with three fully transitioned transwomen known to all the villagers, can there?

Two are local and very well known- so is their journey- I am not outing anyone at all.

And my relative lives in a totally different region. And nowhere any of you at all. I am not giving away any information which is not out there and known by all in those communities.

That's fine then. Sometimes people forget that what they say is there for anyone to read - if you're happy that your posts won't hurt anyone then there's nothing to worry about.

Smileless2012

I am not saying what people may or may not call themselves Fleurpepper or who consenting adults can have a relationship with.

As you say in your post @ 20.41 "facts are facts" and I'm sorry if it upsets you but the fact is a man may no longer have a penis and have a functional vagina but remains a man because it isn't possible to change sex.

It does not upset me, as such. And it is a biological and genetic fact, I agree. But makes no difference at all to the fact they consider themselves as women, and are full sexually functional as females, and could choose, or not, to have a relationship, or relationships, including sex, with other women, lesbians or not. NONE of my business, and none of yours. That is as long as they don't try and infiltrate lesbian events and scream discrimination if lesbians refuse to have sex with them.

I don't get it - I am a very simple creature, heterosexual from start to finish.

Well I am a little bit gay and I find it astonishingly easy to let people be who they are and love who they love.

As long as they are all consenting adults of course

VioletSky

Well I am a little bit gay and I find it astonishingly easy to let people be who they are and love who they love.

As long as they are all consenting adults of course

Selective memory?

A few posts ago you told me very firmly who I could not be.
And the demographic I could not belong to.

Not quite the image you’re portraying 🤔

I don't think it matters whether a poster is gay, straight or a little bit of anything. This thread is about an event designed for a particular group of people and the fact that it had to be cancelled because a different group of people decided to crash it.

Our opinions on the appropriateness of any of that have nothing to do with either our individual sexuality or our willingness to discuss it on a public forum, and nor do our assumptions about those of other posters. I don't see how our own preferences are likely to influence our opinion on the ruination of an event designed for lesbians in any way.

A little bit gay?

What does that mean, please?

Callistemon21

^A little bit gay^?

What does that mean, please?

It reminds me of that Monkees song

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sz-2jckjeHo

So we are in agreement then Fleurpepper. As for this or any other topic being anyone's business, this is a discussion where we give our opinions, not deciding what's anyone's business.

I'm sure we all find it astonishingly easy to let people be who they are and love who they love whether we're a little bit gay or not, but that is not what's being discussed.

Second paragraph was in response to VS.

Ahhh - Davy ❣