Corbyn now Angela Rayner another reason not to vote Labour 🤔

If you sit in the middle if politics, on a politics thread, Maremia, twice as many people are likely to feel that being contradicted is a reportable offence.

if of

DaisyAnneReturns

25Avalon

I don’t want anyone not of current politicians anyway. Labour will be not much if any better than the Tories. So many acts of parliament that the majority of people don’t agree with but they are forced on us anyway by the party in power claiming a mandate. We voted somebody in but a whole package comes with it that we didn’t vote for.

Of course it does. Otherwise you would need a party for each person. I do believe some posters actually think that is what they are entitled to. Democracy doesn't work that way, communities don't work that way and countries cannot work that way.

In the end you have to chose the party travelling roughly in the direction you want the country to go in and stop thinking its all about you. It isn't. You are no more, or less, important than anyone else. Democracy is about all of us.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, DAR, in that no one person's individual wishes have to be consulted, I think that voters have cause for complaint if the party they voted into power start to legislate in areas which weren't in their election manifesto.

But then, how many voters read party manifestos?

DAR I hope your post stands.
There are some posts here that are offensive yours isn’t one

DaisyAnneReturns at the moment our so called democracy sees all sorts of actions that the electorate did not vote for and I cannot see a Labour government being much different from the current lot. MPs on the whole are made to obey the party line. I don’t think it’s all about me. I think it’s become all about them, as do a lot of the electorate who don’t even vote as they feel disenchanted and disenfranchised.

Brilliant Maggiemaybe I think she’s an inspiration and although I come from no where near the north good for the country to have a straight talking intelligent northern girl

Callistemon I think she’d be the last person to cave into pressure unlike most of the lily livers who would do or say anything to stay in favour and suck any toes to stay in position
She shows up as being true to herself and her roots just what we need I would have thought
And anyone who looks down on her for her accent her outspokenness her having a pint is just a plain old snob

I agree and this last government has been a case in point Maisie.

Hopefully, we will move towards PR. I'd like us to move towards Citizens Juries too and possibly the occasional (well constructed) referendum. Although I haven't completely made my mind about the latter.

Citizens Juries would certainly give us more information about the subject we're asked to make a decision on. PR would spread the numbers, of those roughly in agreement, more fairly and at least putting into law the conditions under which referendum should be held, would ensure, hopefully, that any held were as democratic as possible.

But then, I suppose democracy is ever evolving .

Much inverted snobbery

Iam64

DAR I hope your post stands.
There are some posts here that are offensive yours isn’t one

Thank you Iam.

25Avalon

DaisyAnneReturns at the moment our so called democracy sees all sorts of actions that the electorate did not vote for and I cannot see a Labour government being much different from the current lot. MPs on the whole are made to obey the party line. I don’t think it’s all about me. I think it’s become all about them, as do a lot of the electorate who don’t even vote as they feel disenchanted and disenfranchised.

You need to read Ian Dunt's book, Avalon. How Westminster Works, and why it doesn't.

Governments legislate because they can. Because there is absolutely no effective mechanism of control over them, except, surprisingly, the House of Lords, which can delay legislation not related to manifesto policy. Ministers want to make their mark on the area they're assigned to, with a view to further promotion and with a big majority they can do what they like. It's very frightening.

Anniebach

Much inverted snobbery

Where is the inverted snobbery, please Ab?

Callistemon I think she’d be the last person to cave into pressure unlike most of the lily livers who would do or say anything to stay in favour and suck any toes to stay in position

Even when she is just plain wrong?

That is worrying.

I much prefer Jess Phillips

Please can someone show me where there has been "inverted snobbery" I genuinely haven't seen an example of it.

Glorianny

So why not Nicenanny3. She's a great example of a hard working aspirational woman. She grew up in poverty, was a single mum at 16, has worked as a carer and is now a grandmother. She seems to me someone more in touch with the real world than most other politicians.

What you've listed there is hardly “aspirational” is it? And as for being “more in touch with the real world”, she believes that a woman can have a penis!

Just another good reason not to vote Labour.

Why is Rayner considered more in touch with the real world than most politicians? It is so not true

It’s wrong to equate formal education with intelligence or knowledge in my opinion. Intelligent but less formally educated people seek out knowledge, and very often are self directed learners, so excel in their areas of interest.
We need a mixture of people in government who can relate to the electorate -and it’s surely better to have somebody who knows how many people struggle, from experience, rather than somebody who doesn’t but cultivates a ‘bloke you’d meet at the pub’ persona.
As I said earlier, she wouldn’t be my choice for deputy PM, but I think she has a lot to offer and should get a cabinet post which plays to her strengths.

So why is Rayner in touch with the real world? Well she's done one of the worst, most underpaid and yet essential jobs-that of carer. So she knows how society works and what the problems are.
She grew up in poverty. There are currently 4.2 million children living in poverty in the UK. That's 29% of children. 9 out of a class of 30 (except it will be 30 out of 30 in some areas). She knows their plight and hopefully she can make Starmer rethink his views and accept they are a priority.

She was a single mother at 16, so she's worked hard to get where she is. If it isn't aspirational to rise from a poor background , work hard as a single mother and a carer, and eventually become an MP then God knows what is.

It’s wrong to equate formal education with intelligence or knowledge in my opinion. Intelligent but less formally educated people seek out knowledge.

And are mocked for it. As when Dominic Raab sneered in the HOC about Angela Rayner - shock, horror - going to the opera.

Her comment was:

“My advice to the Deputy Prime Minister is to cut out the snobbery and brush up on his opera. The Marriage of Figaro is the story of a working-class woman who gets the better of a privileged but dim-witted villain."

25Avalon

DaisyAnneReturns at the moment our so called democracy sees all sorts of actions that the electorate did not vote for and I cannot see a Labour government being much different from the current lot. MPs on the whole are made to obey the party line. I don’t think it’s all about me. I think it’s become all about them, as do a lot of the electorate who don’t even vote as they feel disenchanted and disenfranchised.

Our "so called democracy" is our only democracy Avalon. As a subject of that democracy it is our job to continue to improve it as our ancestors have done before us. Just think, in 1918, the year my father was born, we saw The Representation of the People Act 1918.

That was a huge step forward and we would now be shocked if there were property owning limitations to who could vote but even this giant step forward left men able to vote at 21 but women had to be 30 or over and they, or their husbands had to own the property they resided in. Think how far we have come; how much our democracy has grown during the lives of just two generations.

I realise there is much to respect about Angela Rayner, but no matter what I cannot bring myself to like her or want her as Deputy Prime Minister. She is just too uncouth for me.
I don't think it's snobbish to say that. And we are all allowed our opinion.
Great problems about who to vote for at the next GE.
Definitely not Tory though.

MaizieD

Anniebach

Much inverted snobbery

Where is the inverted snobbery, please Ab?

I did wonder if I used more earthy language, my posts would be more acceptable, Maisie

anniebach If you seriously need to ask that question I give up
That’s the equivalent of saying the King knows more about a person with arthritis (or old age or limitations to travel) than you do

We can respect her achievements.

But the bottom line is - is she acceptable to the wider electorate or not?
Does the thought of Angela Rayner as Deputy PM or even PM make the Labour Party more likely to win the next election or not?

Not, imho.

Are we allowed to do a a straw poll here? If so,
'How many on here think that Raynor is more uncouth than Anderson, (who used the actual 'f' word)?'