Endometriosis charity appoints trans woman as the new head of the organisation.

Smileless2012

Even if someone's a trans man they are still a woman Glorianny and where has anyone on this thread or any thread on this subject, ever suggested that trans men are fair game and it doesn't matter if they're assaulted?

A trans man would still be honouring single sex spaces if they use those for women, because you can't change sex and they remain women. This has nothing to do with our "beliefs" because this is a biological fact.

Possibly transmen should not use male spaces, but it’s up to the males to decide if they will accept transmen in their spaces.
So evidently it doesn't matter if transmen are safe just if men accept them.

I know that Smileless2012 I fully accept that according to your beliefs transmen should use women's facilities. My argument is that if it is predatory males masquerading as transwomen who are the problem what is to stop those males simply walking into a women's facility and saying they are a transman? They wouldn't even need to change their clothes. So something which could be done purely on a whim or by chance, without any effort.

Mollygo

As long as TW have the right to do what they want Glorianny you have shown that you don’t care. Your post is just another example of that.🤣

No my post is an example of how flawed the gender critical argument is and shows that it isn't possible to protect women by designating people as their natal sex.
It shows that all the anti-trans propaganda is not really interested in the safety of women at all but just in castigating transwomen.
But there is a simple way to show how wrong I am. How, if people are designated according to their natal sex, will you stop a man entering a women's facility by claiming he is a transman?

If I may answer the question you've asked Mollygo Glorianny I would say that anyone who is transgender should carry, and be prepared to show they have a certificate to prove that they are trans if asked to do so.

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

Smileless2012

If I may answer the question you've asked Mollygo Glorianny I would say that anyone who is transgender should carry, and be prepared to show they have a certificate to prove that they are trans if asked to do so.

So one regulation for some women but not for others. Isn't that discrimination? A bit like "no Irish, no blacks" Prove you are a transman.
I'm sure Doodledog will want to know who is going to inspect this and ask for the certificate then refuse admission to someone?

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

If that's a dig at me I'm simply an intersectional feminist interested in how the gender critical view life and how people try to justify discrimination. It is seldom logical.

Glorianny

Smileless2012

If I may answer the question you've asked Mollygo Glorianny I would say that anyone who is transgender should carry, and be prepared to show they have a certificate to prove that they are trans if asked to do so.

So one regulation for some women but not for others. Isn't that discrimination? A bit like "no Irish, no blacks" Prove you are a transman.
I'm sure Doodledog will want to know who is going to inspect this and ask for the certificate then refuse admission to someone?

Not particularly. It has been you, for years, who has said that there is no point in wanting single sex spaces as they are impossible to police. Now that I am asking you how the law you persistently quote can be policed, you object.

Yu can't have it both ways. Incidentally, how does asking for a GRC equate to 'no dogs, no Irish, no Blacks'? I can't see the parallel.

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

It has crossed my mind, as trans lobbyists all use the same phraseology and arguments. It is as though they are given a script to work from.

Doodledog

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

It has crossed my mind, as trans lobbyists all use the same phraseology and arguments. It is as though they are given a script to work from.

Do they? You obviously know far more about them than I do. I just enjoy picking holes in ridiculous and unfounded discriminatory opinions.

Well done Doodledog ‘a script to work from’ 😀👍

I would say a Fable after the National Federation of Women’s Institute sent me an email saying that ‘transwomen are women whether they have transitioned or not’. I told them if they believed that they were ‘deluded’ 🤪

How can someone with a penis be a woman ? The world has gone barking mad 🐶

I think I am living in an alternative universe 🌎

Glorianny says
If that's a dig at me I'm simply an intersectional feminist interested in how the gender critical view life and how people try to justify discrimination. It is seldom logical.
And if anyone doesn’t know what an intersectional feminist is, if they’re all like the examples on GN, it’s a person who supports almost anybody except females.

No Glorianny, not one regulation for some women and not for others trans men are women; trans women are not.

Your desperate attempt to suggest that I am in any way discriminatory by introducing no Irish, no Blacks into your response to me, is extremely offensive.

Smileless2012

No Glorianny, not one regulation for some women and not for others trans men are women; trans women are not.

Your desperate attempt to suggest that I am in any way discriminatory by introducing no Irish, no Blacks into your response to me, is extremely offensive.

But natal women won't have to show any evidence will they ? So transmen are the wrong sort of women for you. Just as the Irish were the wrong sort of people.

Glorianny

Wheniwasyourage

Is anyone else wondering if some of the posts on this thread and others like it are being dictated inspired by Stonewall or similar?

If that's a dig at me I'm simply an intersectional feminist interested in how the gender critical view life and how people try to justify discrimination. It is seldom logical.

Where is the logic in saying that women don't need protection as the law already provides for it by saying that if a woman won't attend something because a transwoman may be there then transwomen won't be able to attend, but also that it is impossible to police entry to events without 'looking in people's pants'?

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

It's very clear what you mean, Smileless. The lack of logic is in the insistence that (a) it is impossible to tell who is male and who is female so there is no point in trying to keep safe spaces for women, and simultaneously saying that (b) the existing law protects women and preserves their safe spaces so there is no need to legislate further.

Separating sex from gender is perfectly logical, as they are separate concepts.

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

But you want trans people to carry gender certificates *Smileless2012^ so you create two sorts of women, one which must carry identification one which needent. The wrong sort of people always need to show some ID. The right sort of course are just accepted.

Glorianny

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

But you want trans people to carry gender certificates *Smileless2012^ so you create two sorts of women, one which must carry identification one which needent. The wrong sort of people always need to show some ID. The right sort of course are just accepted.

Fine, let's all carry identification that must show our birth sex, not a legal fiction. Some services demanded proof of covid vaccination before allowing people to use them, so single sex spaces could demand proof from everybody of natal sex before admittance. No wrong sort of people

How many times do I have to say it Glorianny? Trans women are not women so no, I am not creating "two sorts of women", there is only one 'sort' of women; women.

Great suggestion Rosie.

Smileless2012

How many times do I have to say it Glorianny? Trans women are not women so no, I am not creating "two sorts of women", there is only one 'sort' of women; women.

Great suggestion Rosie.

Of course you are creating two sorts of women. Nothing to do with transwomen. You think transmen are women, but women who should carry a gender recognition certificate. Natal women don't need to carry anything. Two sorts of women.

Rosie51

Glorianny

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

But you want trans people to carry gender certificates *Smileless2012^ so you create two sorts of women, one which must carry identification one which needent. The wrong sort of people always need to show some ID. The right sort of course are just accepted.

Fine, let's all carry identification that must show our birth sex, not a legal fiction. Some services demanded proof of covid vaccination before allowing people to use them, so single sex spaces could demand proof from everybody of natal sex before admittance. No ^wrong sort of people^

I believe ID has been rejected as an idea. But if we had to carry something although it would help with organised and staffed venues there would still be places like toilets which would be unpoliced where men saying they were transmen could just walk in.
The idea that banning transwomen somehow keeps women safer is completely unfounded.

Rosie51

Glorianny

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

But you want trans people to carry gender certificates *Smileless2012^ so you create two sorts of women, one which must carry identification one which needent. The wrong sort of people always need to show some ID. The right sort of course are just accepted.

Fine, let's all carry identification that must show our birth sex, not a legal fiction. Some services demanded proof of covid vaccination before allowing people to use them, so single sex spaces could demand proof from everybody of natal sex before admittance. No ^wrong sort of people^

Or maybe - in the case of public toilets or changing rooms anyway - we could have cubicles-only, with floor to ceiling doors and internal wash basins? And no communal area.

I don't know if that would work. But it would prevent anyone from having to present any form of ID, and allow for individual privacy.

In an unattended public toilet (are there any left?) there is no one to check ID anyway.

So true. I know someone with this. I can't imagine she cares too much who's running the charity as long as it leads to the best and quickest treatment. The waiting is agony.

Smileless2012

Where have I said that trans men are the wrong sort of women Glorianny? I've said previously that trans men are women. I don't differentiate between trans men and women because they are both women. In the same way that trans women and men are both men.

You said
If I may answer the question you've asked Mollygo Glorianny I would say that anyone who is transgender should carry, and be prepared to show they have a certificate to prove that they are trans if asked to do so.
So transmen must carry a certificate- you think they are women, natal women do not need to carry anything. 2 sorts of women.

Transwomen are not women.
They are not a different sort of women,
they are simply not women.

Carrying a certificate wouldn’t work, mainly because if TW are determined to lie, they’re unlikely to find too much difficulty getting a false certificate to support their lie.

If you can’t rely on a male being truthful, making him carry a certificate isn’t going to change that.

I’m sure Glorianny will be able to provide evidence of transmen lying to enable them to cheat in sport or enter places where their sex means they are not entitled to be, especially to threaten males so I’d know if they are likely to be as dishonest about their sex as are the TW who caused this problem.

Transwomen are exactly that. They are not and never will be women. All sorts of excuses, human rights, intersectional feminism, can be raised, but none of them can alter the fact that a male is a male, not a female.
Interestingly (for me) I found evidence of a competition offering a trans category-but the TW still preferred to compete against females rather than compete against other TW or males.