Surely this is a miscarriage of justice in itself?

it must happen a lot, when my son was 11 & started big school 20+ yrs ago in town some big boys told him to wait outside a shop and tell them if a police person was coming. He didn't really know what was going on & was frightened of them so he did. They were caught and charged so J was charged as an accessory. The solicitor told him to plead guilty cos he was guilty under laws of joint liability, so now he has a criminal record he doesn't really deserve. It hasn't hindered his career 20+ yrs on, but its not really right.

grannysue101

I think one of the saddest things to come out of the Post Office scandal is that quite a few small village communities actually believed their postmaster had stollen the money. They were ostracised and their children bullied and taunted at school. That is truly heartbreaking.

You are spot on there grannysue1. There was an article about the sub postmaster from the village where the Middletown’s lived. He was saying how supportive and kind the family was to him always and were thrilled when he was cleared. But like many others, he was treated appallingly by people who’d known him for years after a false conviction.

henetha

The 'slithery elite'... a good description. I feel a huge rage against those people , treating people in this disgusting way.
I worked in a sub post office for five years in the 70's and the postmaster and his wife were lovely people. I'm so glad they retired before this all happened.
And people imprisoned and then found to be not guilty, there was a case recently wasn't there. I bet he is still waiting for compensation to be paid.
My blood is boiling right now for the huge injustice of all this.

Mine too!

I have been listening to The Great Post Office trial in 14 (?) episodes on BBC radio 4 iPlayer, and my blood is boiling all over again. A recorded investigation by a journalist, Nick Wallis, over at least thirteen years, with many of the principals involved; he actually got a brief interview with Nick Reed, the current CEO. No one has yet been prosecuted for the desecration they caused and the Post Office is fighting tooth and nail over legitimate compensation, offering £4,000 instead of £60, 000 they were eventually awarded, for example, whilst awarding bonuses to every employee who took part in the trial. You could almost hear Reed smirking as he enunciated perfectly all the stock phrases;and it is clear they have no intention of changing their culture.
Many of them need to be sacked, put on trial, receive criminal convictions and lose their bonuses and pensions; then they can go out cleaning to make ends meet (Vennells) or walk to work,(George Thompson, Union Rep who supported the PO against the sub post masters) or sleep in their car because they can't afford overnight accommodation (the programme planners who designed Horizon.)
How do these people continue to flourish even when exposed?.

So, ‘plea bargaining’ isn’t allowed in the UK, but being advised to admit guilt to avoid a Crown Court case or to receive a lesser sentence is ok. Looks like a plea bargain is about bartering /negotiatng with the Judge/magistrate, but I’m not clear on it all.
From Wiki:
‘In England and Wales, plea bargaining, in the sense of seeking a particular sentence in exchange for dropping some charges, is not permitted; only the judge or magistrates have the power to determine sentence, and an agreement between the prosecution and defence cannot bind the court.’
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki
Plea bargain - Wikipedia

There was a time when I would have said I would NEVER have pleaded guilty to something I had not done. However with lawyers advising me and the prospect of going to prison being avoided, I actually believe I may have succumbed to this. Even as I write this I can't believe I'm saying it but I sadly suspect it could possibly be true. Guess I'll just have to make sure I'm not put to the test. Mind you, I've not a moment's doubt the poor sub post office workers felt as innocent as I do now. SO sad for them and disgraceful for the perpetrators.

For Mogsmaw, your piece about Jo Hamilton is flawed, she accepted what she was presented with by that system, AND by what she was told by the 'support' people, because she (& almost all the others) had no access to any 'paper trail' or proper details to challenge the sub-totals and totals on her screen. The evidence provided was based on an assortment of perjured evidence, and the prosecutions pushed very hard to get guilty pleas because that meant they didn't have to provide really detailed evidence. It's hardly likely that the defence solicitors had enough accounting or specialist IT knowledge to be able to recommend pleading not guilty?!

My worry is that some victims still haven't surfaced. You might find the article I posted here interesting.
www.gransnet.com/forums/news_and_politics/1331558-POST-OFFICE-HORIZON-SOFTWARE-ORIGINALLY-AIMED-AT-CLAIMANTS (sorry about the capitals).

Anyone who has had dealings with PIP claimants will know what a dog's breakfast it is. If this system was intended to collect information on benefit claimants how many of them have been subjected to the "guilty until found innocent" upside-down justice.

I have a horrible feeling that there is more to come and that the new Government access to Bank Accounts law could go the same way.

A second PO scheme that led to prosecutions, but is thought to be faulty was revealed in the ppers this morning.

I saw that M0nica. I wonder why people are so prepared to believe this government will ever do the right thing.

A government that takes the rule of law away from one group of people could take it from any one of us. Next time they presume guilt, judged on data they hold above suspicion, the people convicted may be unable to challenge that judgment. That could be any of us.

Democracy is not the dictatorship of the majority, as some here seem to think. It is a system of checks and balances that this government is slowly eroding.