Politicising our children.

Thank you M0nica for explaining. My concern is within the school environment because that is what Sago was referring to with the child striking and protesting at school. Also the flag waving at school.

There is absolutely no place for politics in primary school.

It should be a time of fun, learning through activities, projects etc, discovering what you like and dislike along with making friends.

Curtaintwitcher

Quite apart from what is taught in schools, surely children are sitting at home when parents are watching the news. It's natural for them to ask questions, and it's up to their parents to give answers.
I think the home environment has more impact on children than school, so it's important for parents to be very careful what they say on all issues, not just the political.

My 9 year old GD does not watch the news with her parents she is in bed at that time,I would not expect a child of that age to be interested.
Unfortunately in our neighbourhood it seems many parents are angry that their children are not allowed to take flags to school and to discuss this in the playground.
Thy are forcing the cause on their children.
I find it very hard to believe this is driven by the children and not the parents.

Exactly Sago. At that age I was not allowed to listen to the news or even read a newspaper, and my parents certainly didn’t discuss potentially upsetting world events in my presence.

I do remember my son being at senior school during the invasion of Iraq when he and his peer group were very much against that, went off to a protest or two at the week ends and wanted to discuss all of that at school. The teachers absolutely refused any such debate, at the time I thought that they could suspend the set in stone curriculum to allow some time to do that. In retrospect I think they were right in not doing so, I think teachers should where pupils are concerned take a non partisan stance nor seek to imbue them with their own political point of view.

Reading through posts up thread,as pinpointed by Dinahmo, I wouldn't see Taylor Swift as a particularly bad image for youngsters to emulate, I was puzzled by that, her looks appear quite natural to me, she's slim but not anorexic particularly in this day and age where so many high profile women have had so many surgical procedures, superficially she doesn't appear to be one.

Children are raised by parents, those parents may have completely different views. So you could have in a class children who have been taken on marches. These could be pro-Gaza marches or even very right wing marches. If those children bring those views into the classroom you have no choice but to tackle the issue. Racism isn't tolerated and teachers are trained to deal with it and report it. Politics is in the classroom. If children come in with concepts about striking or disrupting school the teacher's job is to try and modify that behaviour and they can best do so by giving alternative methods of protest and action.

I first read the title as " Polarising our children", and I would have agreed that polarising them would be completely wrong. Adults very easily become polarised, and anyone with any influence over young people should be trying to teach them to see both sides in any situation and make a fair decision on what they personally think feel about it.

If "politicising them" means letting them be aware of what is going on in the wider world around them, then I would say that it is impossible to prevent them from that. The media and people around them are always talking about international friction, bad decisions by national and foreign leaders, natural disasters that need co-operation to deal with, and horrific crimes and accidents and their consequences. Adults should be concerned to stop that knowledge becoming polarisation.

Curtaintwitcher

Quite apart from what is taught in schools, surely children are sitting at home when parents are watching the news. It's natural for them to ask questions, and it's up to their parents to give answers.
I think the home environment has more impact on children than school, so it's important for parents to be very careful what they say on all issues, not just the political.

Last week I watched my DGD reading what her dad was typing into a work email on his phone, while they were sat together on the sofa. She is 7, reads everything.
Are other grans telling me that if he'd been on social media, she couldn't have seen some of the awful things from Gaza. Bombed buildings could be perhaps explained away, but this month has had dreadful photos of dead children in their parents arms.

I think one of the saddest things is when a child sees something they know they really shouldn't have been looking at, it disturbs them, but they are unable to talk to their family because they are not supposed to know anything.

My granddaughter is being taken out on marches and her views on politics are being boasted about by my daughter in law. I want to say that she doesn't really have views, she has YOUR views when I hear her but I know it will just cause a storm so I keep schtum. I occasionally point out in a mild mannered way that not every feels the same way when she is waxing lyrical at the grand old age of 8!
When I was her age, my Nan used to tell me nice little girls didn't read newspapers but I think she was trying to protect me from the nasties of the word. I think as a parent you should be trying to instil values into a child about caring and sharing rather than politicising them.

Interesting post, icanhandthemback, and a tricky one for you to observe.
I think it works both ways. Without using too strong words, I believe there would be an element of emotional abuse in not giving a child the opportunity to experiment and to express their views. Nobody is suggesting we should ignore or silence them.
But young children also need protecting, and I can equally see emotional abuse occurring when children are subjected to participating in something beyond their developmental capabilities.

Of course, in schools we are fortunate to have age appropriate spiritual and moral development policies as to what is deemed acceptable. Teachers adhere to the rules set down, and shouldn't start inventing their own agenda within the curriculum.
Obviously, in the home environment parents can make their own judgment.

Glorianny

I think one of the saddest things is when a child sees something they know they really shouldn't have been looking at, it disturbs them, but they are unable to talk to their family because they are not supposed to know anything.

Sorry for commenting on your posts again Gloriangry, but your most telling phrase above is
^ when a child sees something they know they really shouldn't have been looking at it disturbs them^

It is sad, but under those circumstances, it’s quite possibly the guilt that stops them talking, rather than the subject matter.

That’s different from the politicising of children that started this discussion, the difficulties of giving totally unbiased information to children in school or the use of children by their parents to promote the parents’ viewpoints.

However, in today’s world, children are being actively discouraged from talking to their parents about certain things by some groups, and that’s even more disturbing.

Mollygo

Glorianny

I think one of the saddest things is when a child sees something they know they really shouldn't have been looking at, it disturbs them, but they are unable to talk to their family because they are not supposed to know anything.

Sorry for commenting on your posts again Gloriangry, but your most telling phrase above is
^ when a child sees something they know they really shouldn't have been looking at it disturbs them^

It is sad, but under those circumstances, it’s quite possibly the guilt that stops them talking, rather than the subject matter.

That’s different from the politicising of children that started this discussion, the difficulties of giving totally unbiased information to children in school or the use of children by their parents to promote the parents’ viewpoints.

However, in today’s world, children are being actively discouraged from talking to their parents about certain things by some groups, and that’s even more disturbing.

Of course it's probably guilt. But it stems from this concept that a GC doesn't watch things, hasn't access to social media and therefore doesn't know what's going on, which some on GN seem to think is a desirable state. Now it may seem wonderful, but it can be the basis of distress for the child when they do find out things.
Children usually know far more than the adults around them imagine.

So do you agree that children being told to keep things secret from their parents is unacceptable?

Joseann

Interesting post, icanhandthemback, and a tricky one for you to observe.
I think it works both ways. Without using too strong words, I believe there would be an element of emotional abuse in not giving a child the opportunity to experiment and to express their views. Nobody is suggesting we should ignore or silence them.
But young children also need protecting, and I can equally see emotional abuse occurring when children are subjected to participating in something beyond their developmental capabilities.

Of course, in schools we are fortunate to have age appropriate spiritual and moral development policies as to what is deemed acceptable. Teachers adhere to the rules set down, and shouldn't start inventing their own agenda within the curriculum.
Obviously, in the home environment parents can make their own judgment.

I am all for children expressing their views but I am against indoctrination. My son and I used to discuss items we saw on the news and I would give him the argument on both sides of the political spectrum as a starting point. It would have been completely wrong of me only to give my viewpoint without giving him an alternative to think about.

Mollygo

So do you agree that children being told to keep things secret from their parents is unacceptable?

I agree with Gillick competency Mollygo. Stop trying to change the focus of the thread

But Gloriangry I’m not trying to change the focus. You on the other hand have suddenly introduced words that definitely change the focus.
You said it was sad that some children are unable to talk to their family about things that disturb them.
Here’s the quote.
I think one of the saddest things is when a child sees something they know they really shouldn't have been looking at, it disturbs them, but they are unable to talk to their family because they are not supposed to know anything.
I agree, but I don’t think people should make one rule for a circumstance because it suits their point of view but change the rule when they have a different point of view.

Children are most influenced by their parents lifestyle, if the parents have religious or political activity the child will be influenced, sometimes even negatively.

Schools should discuss current affairs in a neutral way or not at all. The old mantra that sex, politics and religion are personal is a good rule to follow.

Schools should discuss current affairs in a neutral way.

Yes, of course, but when? At what age is it appropriate to discuss the war in Israel or the war in Ukraine? What if the children bring it up? What if a child brings a Palestinian flag to school? What about the many Ukrainian refugee children who are already attending our schools?

Lots of questions and many different views.
I tend to agree with Joseann’s posts. Maybe because we’re both teachers, or were in my case.

It may be these days, that schools need to formulate, or look again at, their policies re these particular current events. They need to decide whether to discuss, how to discuss, what to say, bearing in mind the age of their children and their particular catchment area.

I think children of any age should have the opportunity to learn about and speak about politics, as long as they are told about other points of view and I didn't go into details about rape & murder until I judged they were old enough and then only sparse details till they were older. I remember when I asked about politics being told I was 'just a kid' and too young, but the point of childhood is to learn about adult life so its right to allow children to ask/learn. I also used to say to mine that Tories would like everyone to have private health insurance cos the NHS pushes taxes up and rich people don't want to pay more & Labour want a health service which is free and only based on need then I let them decide, at a later date, what party was right for them. I gave them enough of a foundation so they knew a little but they could build on that if they wanted

As a retired teacher what else have we to teach. That topic will be discussed at secondary level in either Humanities or Social subjects. Defo should not be part of PS curriculum. Let them be children... If parent thinks this, let them discuss it with their child if they feel that strongly about it! I hate seeing children on protest marches,strikes etc too. To me that's the parent's politics, and kids just go because they're told to.

I can't even believe that we have to even consider burdening young minds with Politics and the woes of the World. There used to be a law against schools imposing political beliefs on pupils I'm sure. How far this country has come in a bad way.....What a dangerous road to travel on too

When my daughter was 5 in the 1990sshe saw a poster in the Oxfam shop saying how much money would buy a cow/50 meals/seeds etc and decided to have a sale of her old toys to raise money. She wanted to buy a cow but I prepared her for the fact that she might not raise enough money but could still do a lot of good. People gave her things to sell and were very generous in how much they paid for things at her stall outside the house, her brother helped too. She raised enough for a cow, 100 meals and a lot more besides. My kids always had a social conscience and got involved with various things. At 14 she wanted demonstrate in the Town she went to school in and told the head as it was a school day though she was going at lunchtime, the head said she needed a note from home saying it was OK which we duly wrote, just as well she did as she was on the front page of the local paper ( which was put up on the school information board by staff), she did a degree in Alzheimer's and dementia studies and in lockdown started a business taking online talks and workshops into care homes, this continues but she now works half the week with Alzheimer's Scotland. Yes you need to make sure children are not frightened or overwhelmed but they are aware of what is going on in the world so help them feel they can help the situation. BTW my son is a 3d animator and does a lot of work for the Worry Wizard which helps children with their mental health.

let's not forget how the Nazi Party deliberately and officially targeted children of 10 for indoctrination and belief in anti-semitism. Hamas started this war. The Palestinians have and are suffering the consequences of that. The Jews are reacting in horror to their unprovoked vicious attacks based wholly on the fact they were Jews.
This was not an attack on the Israeli Government but part of Hamas' declared mission to destroy all Jews.
This is not for one-sided indoctrination of children by teachers who wholly and unequivocally support Palestine...as most do.
This is not a time for Jewish children in the UK to be persecuted as they are currently daily being.
There are ten times more Muslims than Jews in this country do you really want the simmering pot of anti-semitism to be stirred by children?