Working the hours you are paid for or unpaid overtime?

I’m ex NHS too. The NHS only functions because of staff goodwill, extra hours are the unwritten contractual requirement we all signed up to. I do look back now and realise how much it sapped my energy, it took me a good year after I retired to realise how tired I had been.

When I finished my Ph.d I worked in academia. There were no set hours but it was extremely flexible and there were some perks. Long before WAH became common I was working at home 2/3 days a week writing research papers, articles and grant proposals which would not have been possible in a noisy office. I only went in for essential meetings and to see my students. There were also lots of opportunities to go on courses and learn different skills.

My boss and I would agree a series of deliverables for X date and then it was upto me to organize the work. No one expected you to sit at a computer from 9-5 regardless of whether you were in the office or at home.

However I have worked through weekends, vacation days and one christmas holiday to complete work to a deadline. The reward for working through christmas was a trip to the USA all expenses paid which lasted 10 days. And we stayed in the best hotels. The only expense not covered was alcohol. Later I got the opportunity for an exchange to the USA as a visiting professor. That was an interesting glitzy year.

I believe academia is a very different job now with staff run off their feet and a lot more stress. Many of the conferences have become virtual so not so many nice paid for trips to exotic destinations.

My husband was an academic until retirement biglouis. He took redundancy towards the end of the pandemic when he was told he had to teach the sane modules twice - once for students who came back to university in the flesh and once that students could complete entirely online. He had online students in very different time zones and was working many days at 11pm and 6 or 7am.

He taught a practical course and the planning was horrendous. When he left he was owed six weeks holiday which he couldn't take and wasn't paid for.

Yes, in the earlier days there were benefits but he never managed to use all his holiday allowance- it's a cutthroat business now I think.

vickymeldrew

I agree with all you said, having also worked in banking. Yes, paid from 9am, but usually in and getting set up from about 8.15am.

If you didn’t get off to a ‘good start’, you seemed behind hand all day.

I was running a small sub branch, and it was up to me to get things organised and on time.

DS is an academic in a department where community involvement is part of the remit of the department and its members. It contributes to its ranking among other uiversities.

It is not uncommon for him to be working at least six days a week, plus evenings, as he gives talks to local groups and works with them on projects. As he works in the north of England the area he covers is large and several times a month he has to stay in hotels overnight - at his expense - because the journey home is so long and he needs to be in his department early the following morning.

I worked all my life in the NHS ,and I always worked after my shift ended. For my last twenty years I moved into the community into public health in a more or less 9-5 job, I managed a small team , we still worked extra hours but I was able to ensure we all took time back in lieu. I had had enough of being taken for granted for years .Higher management didn’t like it but couldn’t do much about it. I doubt I took all my time back but at least ensured my team did .

JaneJudge

I think everywhere, people who work hard will put more hours in, sometimes just for pride, recognition or because they felt a duty to do so.

I don’t think I’ve ever got paid for my overtime anywhere

Duty yes, but then they take it as said. I used to switch my answer phone off, on my days off. Otherwise they would have you in then. Out of guilt, not because you wanted too.

I do now too Freya as it is taken for granted

I believe that many people in younger generations are not so willing to do all this. Individual identity is no longer so much invested in a job nowadays. Young people are demanding more of a work-life balance and employees voting with their feet in companies where they do not get it. I also think many younger employees are unwilling to climb the hierarchical ladder and impatient of such notions as "working their way up". I saw this as early as the 1980s in my own profession with accelerated graduate profession. Often the people who were accelerated lacked not so much ability but practical experience. They floundered and expected the older staff to sub them out. And they did not take criticism well.

The old employment contract of being loyal to an employer and being rewarded is broken. Now its all about money and cost. The employment contract is just that - a piece of paper which describes rights and responsibilities. There is no intrinsic connotation of pride in the job or duty.

Is this a good thing?

Civil Service, often worked unpaid hours. I get really annoyed when people talk about us sitting around drinking coffee and getting big pensions, rubbish.

nadateturbe

Civil Service, often worked unpaid hours. I get really annoyed when people talk about us sitting around drinking coffee and getting big pensions, rubbish.

I agree.
However, we did get time off in lieu and if we had to work at a weekend or Bank Holiday got extra pay.

I did quite a lot of coffee drinking when I was in the civil service.

We had a trolley lady who used to come round, laden with food, too.

Callistemon I often worked after hours. Without TOIL.

MissAdventure

I did quite a lot of coffee drinking when I was in the civil service.

We had a trolley lady who used to come round, laden with food, too.

😯
Wow!!

No coffee at the work station.

I must have worked in one of the best departments then, I think.
We ate and drank at our desks.

So, if your vat return form came to you smeared with branston pickle.....

It does sound ridiculous, though, doesn't it?

Teaching, I worked many unpaid hours, at home, planning and marking, just to manage my job well. Being part time, there were no allowances for prep time. I suppose I 'volunteered, as it was my choice.

Still, in an admin job, it was a different story. I was expected to have the half hour lunch and full time day of the rest of the team - until I pointed out that I was actually paid hourly, for just six hours, so would take my hour's break and leave early, thanks all the same!

I have always worked the hours I was paid for and was never asked to work beyond them unless it was paid overtime.

Just thinking about my time as activity coordinator.

My paid hours were 30 a week, but I honestly put in at the very least, double that amount, if not more.
I paid for a lot of the supplies too.

I always used to arrive at work an hour before my start time to get the prep work done. One day I was unable to get there until fifteen minutes before my start time and found the phone ringing as I walked in. It was my boss. "You're very late!" he shouted into my ear. I pointed out that I was actually early and reminded him what time I was due to start. I felt taken for granted.

My mum always got to her job 45 minutes before her start time, for around 16 years.

She did it so that the floors she mopped in a day centre were dry before anyone else arrived, in case they slipped.

Yes I worked at a High St bank many moons ago and was told it was ‘expected’ of me to get in at 8.45 to set up my till but only get paid from 9am. I politely told them where to go as it worked out over a weeks extra pay over the course of the year. Sadly that’s when the bullying started and I resigned a couple of years later after being off on sick leave due to the stress caused. Now I am in a job where I do my hours and often more but if I need time off urgently or leave a little earlier no one minds. Give and take is great but also depends on the mindset of management. Luckily I have great managers now

I’ve worked in both private and public sector and did many many hours of “unpaid” overtime.

I also worked in local government as a qualified local authority accountant. My experience was that the people who hadn't taken and/or passed exams were often 'better' than those that had. I also found that my immediate bosses didn't realise just how much I did, until I'd moved on of course...I resigned from my permanent full-time job in 2003, and things had definitely got worse since I started in 1971 (as a graduate, the only concession I had when I embarked on the accountancy qualification was that I could take the first part after 1 year instead of the usual 2). A lot of the problems have arisen from the privatisation, imposed by central government, and the general assumption that a degree is the be all and end all. I remember telling someone that it was ageism to put that in the advert....
As an accountant, I worked in both finance and service departments and was told on more than one occasion (by people in the service department) that this was obvious from my attitude...
I won't bore you any longer with tales of local government!

I always think people who routinely arrive before time spoil it for the rest of us, who don't want to!

I worked for years as a teacher and the hours were endless - evenings, weekends even supposedly holiday time either marking or preparing lessons. I finally left the profession when I realised I was earning about £4 an hour if I counted the hours worked !