Southport murders *GNHQ has corrected title*

Urmstongran

“Russia’s fake news about the Southport stabbings is part of Vladimir Putin’s “grey warfare” against the West, a former head of MI6 has said.

Russian state media were among those who falsely identified the suspect – who was charged overnight – as an asylum seeker who arrived in the United Kingdom in a small boat.

The claims helped to fuel disorder on the streets in Hartlepool and London as well as Southport, where dozens of police officers were injured in clashes with far-Right protesters.

Sir Richard Dearlove said the spread of fake news was a “fundamental tactic” used by Putin’s regime against the UK and other Western nations.

He told LBC’s Nick Ferrari: “What I can tell you is that we’re in a state of grey warfare with Russia – we may not feel that we are, but they certainly think they are.

“The exploitation of that space is a fundamental tactic in their conflict with the West. So if these bots have been used to stir up through social media a violent response, I’m not the slightest bit surprised.”

Source: The Telegraph just now.

I agree, there has been a lot of speculative reports about this, Putin likes nothing better than division and unrest in the West.

One positive thing here, is that posters now can be under no illusion that deliberate false information is spread deliberately
Channel 3 News Now was linked a number of times with posters insisting the murderer had arrived on a boat recently and his name was xxxx. Additionally X formerly twitter was posting misinfo
It seems Putin is involved in mis info because it spreads dissent and chaos
Scary isn’t it

Putin's strategy can only work if the gullible people read these suspect websites then rush to spread 'information, claiming they personally know all the details.

eazybee

Putin's strategy can only work if the gullible people read these suspect websites then rush to spread 'information, claiming they personally know all the details.

And whether it's Putin or USA or home grown, thats what people are still doing on social media as regards Southport inciting riots.

Some London protestors were waving T shirts with images of the murdered children on them

"Loud chants of 'Oh Tommy Robinson' and 'we want our country back' were also heard as protesters surrounded The Cenotaph, despite police vans trying to protect the war memorial on Whitehall."

Source Daily Mail

To bring this thread back to the perpetrator of this horrific crime, (though I hate talking about him), do we perhaps need to actually examine all the different factors that lead some people, although very rare, with autism to commit violent crimes? I don't think individuals with autism are any more likely to commit offences than anyone else, but there must be certain triggers or risk factors. It's picking these up early that matters.

They see things in black OR white with little or no nuance.
A couple of the Just Stop Oil protesters come to mind.

Autism is an umbrella diagnosis

There is no "they", autistic people are individuals too

And there are many conditions with traits that cross over, so misdiagnosis can also happen

Any human being that is capable of understanding right and wrong no matter what their diagnosis chooses their behaviour.

The spectrum is indeed very wide, so it makes things all the more complicated.
I'm no expert by any means, but for example, I was just wondering that, when they mentioned the prepetrator didn't leave his house to go out, could extreme isolation lead to paranoia, and is that a risk factor in violent murders? What I'm trying to ask myself is, how can red flags be spotted? We need to find answers somehow.

Any human being that is capable of understanding right and wrong no matter what their diagnosis chooses their behaviour.

VioletSky I think you are right.

I might not be

I know poor mental or physical health impacts people's behaviour at times in ways they struggle to control

However whatever the diagnosis, the outcome to a victim is the same and no matter how much time is spent analysing the perpetrator, the victims suffering doesn't change because of it.

For some it may make it easier to forgive or move forward to understand the perpetrator, this is true but it should never be allowed to detract from what they went through... Or ever put them in a position to tolerate wrongful behaviour

Sorry, things on my mind today

No, you might not be right, but I feel that you are.
And you’re certainly right about the impact on the victims.

Now that the perpetrator has been arrested and is under investigation, one important aspect of this tragedy is how he gained admittance to this building and to the class. I read that the entrance doors were left unlocked for 'fire safety reasons'. This is dangerous, not only for fear of intruders but also because young children are able to come and go unsupervised. There should always be separate emergency exits in rooms available for hire to the public, accessible only from the inside, and this should form part of any risk assessment on the suitability of the premises.
We hire room in our local Library for several regular meetings when the Library is closed, and we now lock the door because of the number of people who come in to change their library books, and are often aggressive when told it is a private meeting. They also regard the lavatory as a public one, and once I discovered a mother and child inside who had entered when I was checking all the windows and doors preparatory to setting the alarm.

There are locks available that whilst locking the door from the outside, give immediate release when opening from the inside. We had this style at the school I taught at before I retired. After Dunblane all security was upgraded and new locks and protocols introduced.

lots of children will attend unlocked leisure centres and play areas during the summer

You’re right JaneJudge, and sadly many parents will be afraid to leave their children at the children’s activities this summer .

the entrance doors were left unlocked for fire safety reasons. This is often the excuse given, but let's be honest, in reality unless you are on school premises with all the tight security, you probably couldn't have prevented this from happening, whatever the precautions taken.
One rare incident is one too many, my heart goes out to every victim, but heaven forbid that we should live in a country where every club, activity venue, church hall, art studio etc needs to be locked down.
maddyone is right, school security was upgraded after Dunblane. It is given the highest priority on inspection checklists.

there are still lots of rural schools in former agricultural areas that really don't have the level of security they have in town and city schools. I know one of the schools my boys attended had open playing fields and an unfenced sports facility building.

I understand that will have to be looked at but I suspect he would have got in anyway. Children and adults would have to open the doors to leave, he could have rushed in then. I dont want any kind of blame lain at the feet of the organisers.

Many children will be using outdoor play facilities and organised sports activities, especially in the holidays JaneJudge and I came to the conclusion that it is not like being in an enclosed place with only one escape route.

How dreadful that we have to consider this at all, but after Dunblane it has always been a consideration. ☹

The young dance teacher is actually a heroine.
She risked her own life. She was a qualified teacher, she would have done training. This all happened in a split second. She could have just opened the doors at the end to let the parents pick up the children.
I hope no one is looking to blame anyone.

I hope no one is looking to blame anyone.

There is only one person to blame, Joseann.

Absolutely, no blame should be given to anyone. I was only pointing out that there are locks available that lock externally but have quick release internally, as required for fire safety regulations. However the killer could easily have loitered around and then, as Joseann says, rushed at the group as they were leaving. The teacher is a true heroine as is the man who rushed in to help and suffered a bad stab in the leg, and the other man who caught the killer and sat on him until police arrived (well obviously the two men are heroes, not heroines.)

Callistemon213

^I hope no one is looking to blame anyone.^

There is only one person to blame, Joseann.

Quite.

Yes I think that's the point I was trying to make. I think we like to think we can stop these incidents by increasing security, locking the doors etc. I just dont think it works like that. I dont think anyone on here is blaming, sorry I introduced that word, but I was talking generally not about people on the thread.

No I don't think extra security would have made any difference to that young mans murderous intent. If for whatever reason he was focusing on that particular event, it would no doubt still have happened, but outside.

And it is so so sad that it happened and has affected so many people. There will be children frightened to go to any event this summer and probably frightened to go to school in September. And parents and grandparents frightened as well to leave their children.
I wish we didn't have to see his face in the papers and on tv or hear his name ever again.