Retirement apartments

I don't know of any council provision around here, it's all privately owned and councils have to contribute to the cost of many residents. Many of these places are owned by hedge funds or similar and are making a lot of money whilst paying care staff minimum wage or a little above.
I see this ownership as one of the barriers to sorting out the 'care crisis', it's hard to pour more money into the sector to just line pockets. There would have to be enforceable targets on pay, training etc

Ps she does pay for essential repairs and maintenance, obviously.

JennyCee

Theexwife. I dont think you are at all correct. House purchase isnt just paying a mortgage, it’s paying for all the repairs etc. you pay a plumber £100 before you put the phone down. All house repairs, which are usually frequent cost a bomb and often need an extension of the mortgage. Council house tenants only pay their rent, dont pay for painting, repairs or anything else.

I have a friend who lives in a terraced ex-council house. She is widowed and downsized to this smaller property because she needed some money to invest to eke out her basic state pension as they had no other pensions.

Around her, some of the houses are still Council owned and have had new roofs, new heating systems, solar panels, exteriors painted, new fences etc etc but she daren't spend her savings on big projects because they have to last her and perhap pay for care one day.

You have every right to band together with the fellow residents and take over the management. My husband and one other did it, it took a lot of organization and was all done within two years, 42 properties. We had to buy the freehold as a group, it cost I think £2000 per share.

From thence we organized our own management. The main property was a large manor house of apartments with a lift and new build apartments and houses. Costs are far lower because of having this control, they do now out-source the admin but costs are are still within their own control

ALANaV, your management company should have a sinking fund to at least fund part of the cost of such a big bill, however the lift maintenance is not an unexpected item so they may not be able to use that fund

Things will go on as they are, people complaining about this and that while men in suits are taking big profits. The remedy is to take control. You cannot change the past and it is not worth the envious feeling. Having savings enables choices, whether to live with mould and in cold homes or not. You could set the ball rolling today

My Mum lives in a private retirement apartment. It’s not cheap, but she’s happy, secure, she has some good friends and a better social life than me!
Fortunately she moved there just before the lockdowns. Previously she had lived in a large house which was expensive to maintain and she had several falls. Had she been living alone during Covid I think she would have suffered a rapid mental decline.
She doesn’t have serious money issues, but, at the age of 93, why worry?!

Told to me by a friend who moved in to a retirement apartment run by a well known company in the private sector: The management told them they had no right to form a Residents' Committee when they wanted to air problems. The number of support staff has reduced considerably since she moved in. Alarm calls are not answered promptly. The cleaning of the common parts is very irregular. The staff put up noticeboards without consulting residents which resulted in wheelchair users not being able to read the information. Virtually all activites, which were arranged by staff, have been closed down. The management charge alone is £500 per month.
I think anyone considering retirement apartments should proceed with caution.

MissAdventure

Residents can take over the management and maintenance of these places, I think.

Then there is the various issues that entails to deal with.

If its any consolation, i live in a council block, and it is almost a slum.

☹️☹️

Theexwife. I dont think you are at all correct. House purchase isnt just paying a mortgage, it’s paying for all the repairs etc. you pay a plumber £100 before you put the phone down. All house repairs, which are usually frequent cost a bomb and often need an extension of the mortgage. Council house tenants only pay their rent, dont pay for painting, repairs or anything else.

I don’t agree that it would be immoral to withdraw free prescriptions from pensioners. I think what is immoral is the number of medicines many people take unnecessarily as a result of GPs prescribing for individual symptoms rather than establishing the root cause of symptoms. Questioning such polypharmacy might well reduce the number of prescriptions written which would benefit individuals and the NHS.

I have been the chair as well as a committee member on housing co-operatives (not the same as housing associations). We did indeed have a "sinking fund" to cover routine maintenance of the property and any additions that were needed. We also had a managing agents and firm of accountants who kept the books and advised on any required expenses of this kind. It was usually done 6-12 months in advance. If upcoming expenses were likely to exceed reserves they would advise us to raise the rents in advance and by how much. It was quite interesting work.

Regarding retirement flats per se, I do remember when my late mother became widowed, she very much wanted to sell the house and move to one and asked me to help her in that. We found a lovely block, literally opposite the sea. The maintenance charges were hefty. To an extent, I can see where the money was spent. A house manager who lived on the premises and available a lot of the time, the common parts were of a high standard, anything that wore out was replaced, a lift of course that had to be maintained, and was. Surely a new one would come out of maintenance charges Alanav, I seem to remember there was some sort of "sinking fund" in the accounts.. Having said that there were a lot of gripes about the actual management company. My mum warned me, as advised by her solicitor, when selling the property after she died , they charged £1,000, I can't remember for what exactly, I think it was to transfer over some documents that would relate to the sale, there was other stuff as well they charged way over the top for everything. I think it's become a growing trend for residents to cut out the middle man and organise their own management, good for them, but I imagine at times that could be time consuming. However, at the time of purchase, as far as I was concerned I wanted my mother to be happy, and it proved to be the right move for her, she felt secure, which she didn't in the house, I did tell her, "how you spend your money is your choice, don't worry about ramifications of a sale when you're are no longer here".

I sympathise with your OP, nevertheless I do think people who don't have enough funds to purchase their own property should be offered apartments in old age that are subsidised by the state and are as good a standard, although your friend's sounds quite superior in what it provides.

Doodledog

Do places like the one in the old sitcom 'Waiting For God' still exist? I'm not sure what they would be called - retirement homes, as opposed to care homes, I suppose. Places for communal living where the residents can come and go, with more of a hotel feel than a hospital.

Obviously you're not of an age where you might need consider this.

There are many retirement villages, they have become very popular, often with nursing home in the grounds if needs should change. They are not cheap, nor are the annual costs.
The charges for maintenance are huge, there is a fee (usually 20% of the sale price) when selling and it is totally wrong to expect residents to pay £thousands per annum in service charges then expect them to pay for a new lift themselves!

I know people here who have sold their family homes and have been allocated Council retirement apartments or alms houses.
As someone said "it's not what you know, it's who you know round here".

maddyone

Theexwife

If she has paid rent all her life then it was far more than you would have paid for your mortgage, you now have an asset she does not.

ALANaV has explained, the person in question bought her own house, but sold it to give her children an inheritance.
So if she needs social care, that will be paid for by the state too.

That is deprivation of assets and she may find she will not be funded if she needs care.
Perhaps her children will cough up.

GrauntyHelen

Your friend isn't getting anything for nothing !

No, but she is getting significant discounts, because someone has decided that she is in need where people like Alan are not.

Means-testing is iniquitous, and targets the majority who are neither rich nor poor. If you have less than what is 'needed' you get given. If you have significantly more, it doesn't matter as you don't 'need' allowances. If, on the other hand, you have tried to save and be self-sufficient, you are deemed unworthy, and have to keep paying out to support those who have not. Not only that, but you are assumed to be too dim to realise that life is not fair, and too uncaring to want to see this without means to save to be helped.

Take a contribution from everyone (weighted according to income), and give allowances to everyone at the life stages where they need it - eg childhood, maternity, illness, old age - the stronger should support the weaker, and expect support in their turn. This only fails when people are allowed to opt out, and the scales don't balance.

cars.
Not sure where thst came from! flats

Oh dear, ALANaV I can understand why you're unhappy.

I'm really surprised the residents are having to fund the new lift; surely that is what these extortionate annual charges are for? Maintenance of the buildings eg repairs of roof, gutters, stairways, new lift, decorating of the outside and public spaces should be down to the company running the apartments even if you pay for decoration and maintenance of your individual cars.

Instead of getting cross on GN, why not organise a meeting of residents and see how they feel then seek advice?

Good luck.

Ps your post is a good wakeup call for anyone considering buying a retirement apartment or a Park Home.

Residents can take over the management and maintenance of these places, I think.

Then there is the various issues that entails to deal with.

If its any consolation, i live in a council block, and it is almost a slum.

Maintenance costs can be challenged if they are excessive. Have you thought of getting together with fellow residenrs and forming a pressure group?

When I lived in a tower block back in the early 90s there were building works with jackhammers (to alter a major underpass) which went on overnight. I helped to organise a pressure group with residents of several blocks and we won an injunction to stop night time work.

Ive also collaborated with neighbours to stop and HMO being located opposite.

Not the same thing but you have more clout when you get together with others.

Your friend isn't getting anything for nothing !

Theexwife

If she has paid rent all her life then it was far more than you would have paid for your mortgage, you now have an asset she does not.

....and your point is?

I think this issue with covering the cost of a new lift could be a case of mismanagement of funds by the board of directors or the company that runs your complex. If you are charged a monthly or annual ‘fee’ paid to this company or group to manage the day to day costs of maintenance and upkeep of the building and the property in general such as landscaping, small repairs, staffing/management costs etc., a certain percentage of these fees should be kept in a separate account to accumulate in what is called a Reserve Fund specifically set up to cover major expenses such as the cost of new lifts, new roof etc., and only accessed for major expenses - not month to month running costs. Because these major expenses don’t occur regularly, the Reserve Fund - if managed properly - can grow over time to cope with big expenditures like this. It still amounts to the same thing - the occupants of the complex are bearing the cost, because a percentage of the fees they have paid over time will have contributed to the growth of the Reserve Fund so it can be accessed to cover these major expenditures. A healthy Reserve Fund is a true indicator of a well managed complex!

knspol

I think it's true that having worked hard all our lives, struggled to save, done without holidays or luxuries, rarely bought anything until saved up for it, travelled miles each day for work we get penalised one way or another. I accept that some people have not had the resources (mental or physical) to 'progress but there are many others who just never bothered to try and relied on the state ie us to fund their lifestyle. With a labour government they may well fare very well indeed!

I understand your feelings, but what is the government to do? They cut the WFP and are criticised, but are also criticised for being perceived to be going to make life easier for people. I suspect there will be more cuts to come. Not as targeted on the disadvantaged as those made by the Tories/coalition governments, but cuts all the same. It will be interesting to see the reactions from people who cheered on the Tory cuts when this government do it.

I would be more than surprised if political researchers don't read boards like this and Mumsnet to gauge public opinion. Maybe they saw all the previous threads about how people 'didn't need' the WFP and how things like free prescriptions and bus passes weren't necessary, and assumed that the policy would go down well?

Theexwife

If she has paid rent all her life then it was far more than you would have paid for your mortgage, you now have an asset she does not.

ALANaV has explained, the person in question bought her own house, but sold it to give her children an inheritance.
So if she needs social care, that will be paid for by the state too.

I can understand how you feel ALANaV. I was brought up to work hard and save as much as I could. We did without things other people thought they needed and eventually started to reap the rewards but would be in a similar situation to you if I had bought a retirement flat.
I'm glad we made the choice to save and do without as we were able to buy the things we really wanted later.
I have no resentment towards those who chose differently. As adults we are responsible for our own decisions. Resentment only hurts you in the end.

I think it's true that having worked hard all our lives, struggled to save, done without holidays or luxuries, rarely bought anything until saved up for it, travelled miles each day for work we get penalised one way or another. I accept that some people have not had the resources (mental or physical) to 'progress but there are many others who just never bothered to try and relied on the state ie us to fund their lifestyle. With a labour government they may well fare very well indeed!