Degree apprenticeships v university degrees

Good post David.

Does anyone think that these university degree courses are worth pursuing and of value to both the student and potential employer?

Stand-Up Comedy
Psychology of Fashion
Hand Embroidery
Floral Design
Viticulture and Oenology (wines)
Surfing Science
Puppetry Design and Performance

How many people studying courses such as OhOhOh names are likely to get jobs in those fields (they seem unlikely to learn transferable skills) or, more to the point, ever repay their loans?

Surfing Science

Yes. I do know someone who took this course (BSc Hons) and has had a very successful career working around the world and then set up his own very successful surf school.
The course isn't just learning how to surf. 🏄‍♂️

Hand Embroidery

Yes. Worked in Costume design in film and TV.

Have they paid back their loans?

They went to university before loans but I'm sure the owner of the surf school could easily have paid back any loan. He's a millionaire.

The other person I know worked in film and TV and you may have seen some of the costumes she researched and embroidered in historical films and TV dramas. Of course, as these courses cover far more than OhOhOh would imply, many skills learnt on the courses are transferable to other industries.

OhOhOh

Indeed not Barleyfields. I would imagine that any employer would choose an applicant, who has both academic and practical knowledge to offer would be first choice in any recruitment process.

Well yes. But an applicant can have practical and academic knowledge to offer if they have passed a degree that has been accredited by the relevant professional body. That is the point of accreditation. A level scores are by no means the best indicator of how students progress. They measure a very different set of skills from those required at undergraduate level (and different again from postgrad requirements). Also, not all students are geographically mobile. Some go to their nearest university for all sorts of reasons. The A level requirements of a course says little or nothing about the calibre of a graduate. It can say a lot about social class at 18, however; so if people are trying to screen out 'the lower orders' then looking at the institution and A level grades is as good a way as any.

I would still like to know on what basis people feel able to dismiss courses they have not taken. A level requirements 'not inspiring confidence' doesn't suggest even a rudimentary understanding of how these things work, and doesn't give much away (perhaps deliberately) about the thought process.

I often suspect that those who are happy to write off young people before even meeting them are either threatened by the fact that they have degrees (and maybe the threatened people don't?) or they are protective of their own qualifications which were gained when their scarcity gave them value that no longer exists. I'm happy to change my mind though, if someone would like to explain.

What did my post imply Allira? I simply asked "Does anyone think that these university degree courses are worth pursuing and of value to both the student and potential employer?" and you responded that you knew of 2 that were. What other implication have you erroneously drawn from a simple question?

The tone was dismissive of those degrees of not having value.

Allira I have read the post to which you refer and cannot see anything 'dismissive' in the question. It's just a question, up for discussion/answer.
Good to hear examples of how these degree courses have worked out for students /employers.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Allira

^Surfing Science^

Yes. I do know someone who took this course (BSc Hons) and has had a very successful career working around the world and then set up his own very successful surf school.
The course isn't just learning how to surf. 🏄‍♂️

I agree with you on that on Allira. I've never really understood why it's used as an example of a "useless" course. An understanding tides and the way the sea works is invaluable not only to surfers, but to coastguards, the RNLI and river pilots, etc.

Thanks growstuff.

It was not my DC who took those courses as they took what might be regarded as 'sensible' degrees, but a couple of their friends did and I must say they have done extremely well with their specialised knowledge.

David49

Barleyfields

Companies are not taking on workers at graduate level, if you got a first you will probably get headhunted

You are contradicting yourself David, and of course employers are taking on graduates if they consider the particular graduate has the requisite aptitude for the job, and for some positions, especially in professions, a good degree from a good university is required. A crap degree from a crap university will open no doors.

Exactly what I am saying, aptitude, far to many that havn’t got that, and should aim for a vocational qualification call it a degree or whatever you want.

A poor pass from a poor university is a waste of time yet those universities are taking students to fill seats, we need graduates but not in the numbers that are going to university, it’s not about the dreams of the students, much more important is what the economy needs.
The economy needs more workers at skilled technical level

Given that students now pay for their own courses, don't you think they have a right to study something for which they have a passion, but is not necessarily what the economy needs?

Yes, the economy needs more people at skilled technical level, but it doesn't mean that those people are without creativity and imagination (hopefully).

Maybe it surprises you that a former student of furniture and interior design at the Royal College of Art is now one of the UK's richest people.

Aldom is correct. My question was purely and simply to discuss those university courses; it was not condemnatory of the value of degree or the academic aptitude of the student. It's interesting that it's had to be explained!

Indeed, but nobody has to attend university to obtain such an understanding growstuff.

Maybe we should think again about the meaning of success. I remember watching this talk some years ago when I was very low and it changed my own priorities:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtSE4rglxbY

Barleyfields

Indeed, but nobody has to attend university to obtain such an understanding growstuff.

So where else do you think they get that specialised understanding? I disagree with you. Maybe you should look in some detail at what is actually taught on the course.

Barleyfields

Indeed, but nobody has to attend university to obtain such an understanding growstuff.

That shows a lack of understanding of the course content.

But so long as the student is paying for that course, surely have a right to study whatever subject they choose Barleyfields? I was surprised to see that Horology was included on a list of "useless degrees" but, without horologists, our museums and antiques would be lost to future generations.

I have no idea of the course content Allira. I was merely responding to growstuffs post of 14.03.02.

Absolutely OhOhOh, but the concern I have expressed is whether student loans are ever repaid.

Barleyfields

I have no idea of the course content Allira. I was merely responding to growstuffs post of 14.03.02.

So if you have no idea of the course content, how do you know that nobody has to go to university to obtain such an understanding?

Have you any idea how much advanced maths and physics is involved (as it is, incidentally, in many vocational degrees)?

It is highly unlikely that the vast majority of people (even those who fancy themselves as surfers) have that kind of specialist knowledge.

Barleyfields

Absolutely OhOhOh, but the concern I have expressed is whether student loans are ever repaid.

They don't need to be because the Students Loans Company makes more from interest repayments than capital repayments.