You need to ask your baby’s permission before changing his or her nappy….

I'm absolutely killing myself laughing about the entire thing! I'm child-free by choice, but if I had them and said ''Dearest little baby, only one day old, please may I change your stinking poopy nappy?!'' Baby said ''No, I'm suing you for assault and child abuse!''

BBC News. ''A 27-year-old Indian man plans to sue his parents for giving birth to him without his consent.

Mumbai businessman Raphael Samuel told the BBC that it's wrong to bring children into the world because they then have to put up with lifelong suffering.''

''A demand like this could cause a rift within any family, but Mr Samuel says he gets along very well with his parents, both of whom are lawyers, and they appear to be dealing with it with a lot of humour.''

It’s not really asking their permission though is it? It’s just introducing the language of consent from an early age which is no bad thing. I used to do this with my now teenager.

Summerlove

Mt61

I’ve heard it all now. So sick of the whole woke brigade 🤦‍♀️.
Children belong to the parents, not the state. It should be up to them how they bring up their kids.

Children don’t “belong” to anyone.

Teaching consent is hardly “woke”

I totally agree Summerlove:

I have not read the article but if it is in the paper it must be true.

It sounds like the usual conflation that so many journalists go in for.

Summerlove

Mt61

I’ve heard it all now. So sick of the whole woke brigade 🤦‍♀️.
Children belong to the parents, not the state. It should be up to them how they bring up their kids.

Children don’t “belong” to anyone.

Teaching consent is hardly “woke”

I wouldn’t call it ‘woke’ - just daft, to think anyone should need to ask a very tiny child’s permission to do something that’s essential for their health/wellbeing. Should we also ask their permission before washing them, brushing their teeth, taking them for routine vaccinations?

Teaching an older child about ‘consent’ via e.g. the NSPCC ‘pants’ programme is a different matter.

I think most Mums talk soothingly to their babies when changing their nappies, to distract them from wriggling about.
Changing baby DGS nappy was a two man operation!😁

I think I may have tracked down the original statement on the BBC website.

Over seven years ago Deanne Carson talked about "setting up a culture of consent." she went on to qualify this by saying "Of course a baby's not going to respond and say "Yes, mum."

The press naturally pounced on her with glee and chose to ignore her qualifying statement.

I think the issue is that changing a nappy involves cleaning the genital-anal area and Deanne Carson was recommending an early introduction of the concept of consent for intimate touching.

Unlike the press and some GNs, I don't believe the principle was meant to be applied to all areas of parental control.

Well, I used to ask 😀
"Shall we go and change your nappy, make you nice and comfy?"
But never waited for a reply. Bad Mother!

I have not read the article but if it is in the paper it must be true

How much tosh is spread by gossip/social media/sensation seekers.
Why argue about such nonsense?
And just because it’s in the paper is far from being any guarantee of its veracity.

RosieandherMaw I would just like to make it very clear that I was trying, obviously failing, to be ironic when I made the statement about the papers. Hence the grin at the end.

Also I don't think the originator of the statement was setting out to be a sensation seeker and to be quoted out of context.

Having read what she actually said in some detail, I think that the introducing the concept of consent for intimate touching was aimed at the adults involved as well as the child.

There have been many documented cases of sexually abused young children being kept in ignorance and not realising that what was being done to them was wrong.

For generations children have learnt that their bodies are private and other people should not touch them.

But knowing that and being able to implement it when faced with older bigger stronger people, often in positions of authority insisting that the child does what they want is another thing altogether.

Plus in the past because there was such a taboo against such touching - and children knew it - meant that it became something that no one ever talked about and was horrified and often blamed the children if it was ever made public.

It is not the children that need to be told their bodies are there own. What they need to know where and how to report it and to understand that the threat can come from their nearest and dearest, even their parents.

Quite how a small baby can be taught to report any contravention of its privacy, I am not sure.

M0nica

Most babies will cry and wriggle and scream if you try to do anything to them that they do not like. Would anyone let a baby or child travel in a car without any safety restraint just becausethey kicked up a fuss?

When we see tv programmes about other societies, large primates, for example, commentators will always talk approvingly about the way the babiess and juveniles are taught to socialise and learn to fit in with wider society and adults. Why does this change when it is human babies?

Talking to a baby while interacting with it is instinctive adult and baby interaction. This is how babies learn to vocalise then speak. Parents or adults who do not chatter to their children are the ones inneedof guidance.

Indeed talking about what is taking place is how a child learns their native language. There should be a few parenthood classes in every curriculum.

PS, learning their native language includes , besides learning vocabulary and whole sentences, also includes the caregiver's attitudes to touching another person's body and mind.

Poppyred

I read in the paper today……

Newspapers don't only transmit facts they also teach attitudes Some attitudes are unscientific and some attitudes are harmful. Not every journalist is free to tell the truth . Many journalists work for newspapers that belong to not very honest people.

So, which newspaper did you read it in? Did you ask what was the source of the allegation?

Poppyred

I read in the paper today……

This has to be a joke, yes? Honestly, as if.

WE. they do belong to the parents, until they are at an age to make their own minds up.

Mt61

WE. they do belong to the parents, until they are at an age to make their own minds up.

I say they belong to the parents but agree with Caleo, that some parents need to learn how to parent.
Local authority is getting a large house ready near me, for exactly this purpose.

Mt61

Mt61

WE. they do belong to the parents, until they are at an age to make their own minds up.

I say they belong to the parents but agree with Caleo, that some parents need to learn how to parent.
Local authority is getting a large house ready near me, for exactly this purpose.

I'm totally in favour of parents being supported and helped in their parenting, but I hope they aren't 'taught' that there is only one acceptable way to parent.

Magenta8 I did quote Deanne Carson in my earlier post at 01.02.50 where she mentions body language and eye contact.

Yes absolutely Rosie51.

Message withdrawn as it quotes a deleted post.

Apologies Rosie51

Rosie51

Mt61

Mt61

WE. they do belong to the parents, until they are at an age to make their own minds up.

I say they belong to the parents but agree with Caleo, that some parents need to learn how to parent.
Local authority is getting a large house ready near me, for exactly this purpose.

I'm totally in favour of parents being supported and helped in their parenting, but I hope they aren't 'taught' that there is only one acceptable way to parent.

Magenta8 I did quote Deanne Carson in my earlier post at 01.02.50 where she mentions body language and eye contact.

Each parent /child relationship is unique. However it's a wise parent who knows the best research on how young children learn.

BlueBelle

Oh darling baby may I have permission to tell you not to put your finger in that hole in the wall
Nooooo
Oh dear I was needing you to say yes it’s very dangerous
Noooooo
Whoosh, bang, whallop, sizzle oh dear

Quite.............

Labradora

BlueBelle

Oh darling baby may I have permission to tell you not to put your finger in that hole in the wall
Nooooo
Oh dear I was needing you to say yes it’s very dangerous
Noooooo
Whoosh, bang, whallop, sizzle oh dear

Quite.............

Unlike the press and some GNs, I don't believe the principle was meant to be applied to all areas of parental control.

This "discussion" is yet another example of people sounding off without trying to understand.

I don't know why people are so keen to rubbish things without knowing anything about them.

Speaking to Australia’s ABC News on 8 May, Deanne Carson said she works with parents from birth teaching them "to set up a culture of consent in the home" and to talk to their newborn baby saying things like "I’m going to change your nappy now, is that OK?"

“Of course a baby’s not going to respond and say, ‘Yes, mum, that’s awesome, I’d love to have my nappy changed!’ but if you leave a space, and wait for body language, and wait to make eye contact, then you’re letting that child know that their response matters,” says Deanne.

Since giving that interview, Deanne has found her views ridiculed online.

Deanne tells BBC Three that her words have been misunderstood.

She says parents should communicate with babies while changing their nappies, so that – even though they can’t respond with words - they learn from an early age that they are in control of their bodies.

Deanne Carson appeared on ABC Australia
“We read to small children with no expectation that they will pick up a book and read it back to us or even really understand what the book is about,” Deanne explains. “What we are doing there is building the foundations of literacy and normalising reading. So when we practise consent with babies, we are doing exactly the same.”

Deanne, who works with the child protection organisation Body Safety Australia, explains that parents already talk to their babies about what they like and don’t like.

"We often speak to them, wait a beat or two, and then respond for them – most people do it, and it’s how babies learn language and empathy,” she says. “For example, we’ll say, ‘Would you like some banana? I have a lovely banana just for you! You would, you would like a banana?’"

Deanne says that parents already talk to their babies while feeding them
Deanne adds that approaching babies in this way means that they're more likely to have healthy relationships with people when they grow up.

“If children grow up in a home where their bodies and voices are respected, then that’s the core value they will bring into their future relationships."

Let's not rubbish all new ideas before we've found out what they are.

Deanne Carson says:

I have taught a ten year old who, in discussing sex and gender and the glorious variations of human experience, realised they were intersex.

Under new recommendations in the UK, these children and the many children like them would be denied the information and support that we provide.

But in the UK quality relationships and sexuality education is being gutted because we allowed those intent on dismantling it to whip up a moral panic about transgender children.

When we allow a 'debate' on the existence and dignity of trans people, we participate in the erosion of all the recommendation from the Royal Commission to Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. Because once they have erased trans identities from the classroom then they target gays and then abortion, contraception, pleasure and consent. This is exactly what has played out in the UK