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Parents fined for non school attendance ...

(122 Posts)
Luckygirl3 Wed 08-Oct-25 07:40:58

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy04zrjg4y5o

This seems to me an enormous waste of court time. It was acknowledged that the parents had done no wrong as they had done everything they could to get their child to school and yet still they are fined, and indeed saddled with a community service order like common criminals.
This seems to be an unhappy child who cannot cope with school. How does it help to criminalise the parents?

kjmpde Thu 09-Oct-25 14:24:41

When I was growing up , attending school was the norm. I never considered not going . If I had realised you could have skipped school, then I would have. School does not suit everyone.
Saying that I know of a girl who hated school but then she was allowed to study hairdressing from the age of 13 and then she bloomed. I think schools need to offer lessons in practical subjects so all students feel as though they have a reason to attend school.

Nannapat1 Thu 09-Oct-25 14:26:31

I agree with the original poster. There is no point in criminalising parents.fining a parent and ultimately sending them to prison is surely detrimental to the family and therefore the child.
Another thing: attendance alone isn't the be all and end all where education is concerned.

cc Thu 09-Oct-25 14:32:03

My youngest daughter decided, just six months before her A-levels, that she didn't want to be at school any longer. Fortunately there was no question of anybody prosecuting us as this was before the days of the relevant legislation, but it was very disappointing for us all as she was a clever girl and had breezed through school. She had been to a state primary and won a place in a highly selective school without any extra tuition. She left school and also left home, taking a job in a local pub as a barmaid.
She later took two A-levels at a crammer and so far during her working life she has had no problems getting good, well-paid jobs and happily supports herself and her two children.
I didn't much enjoy school as an adolescent either, and wonder if there are better and more interesting options to pursue than those available in a traditional secondary school.

Allira Thu 09-Oct-25 14:38:34

I think I can say that my DC have all done well in their careers despite school.

madeleine45 Thu 09-Oct-25 15:01:04

I am speaking as a parent, grandmother to an autistic child, teacher and lecturer, having worked in state schools, and also in Montessori and other differening styles in various countries. There is always plus and minus in every situation. I disliked the french system when I was abroad as very regimented, in that all class 4's would be on page 3 of book x, at a specific time. This was far too regimented for most children. However it was very good with children, often diplomats or service personnel s children, as they could change countries and feel at home in the next school so less anxiety about the changes. I have seen how well Montessori works when used properly and have actually taken a group of people who insisted that a 4 year old cannot concentrate for long spells at a time. We watched a particular child through a one way mirror spend over 2 hours going on and on through a particular thing, learning as she went and totally absorbed in what she was doing.

I was very lucky as a child to be in a small junior school, where of course we had a timetable, but all the teachers were good and the headmaster was able to make the most of things within reason. So for example on a lovely day like today, with a sunny and warm patch , which is unlikely to carry on for much longer, we would still do perhaps angles in maths , but we would go outside and look at tree shadows and heights and so forth, so the curriculum was followed , but even if you went to school thinking it was not your favourite day, there was the possibility of something unusual and different to look forward to.

I think these days another area that really concerns me is that what for most people will be part of their lives much longer than chemistry lab tests, or playing football or answering involved maths questions, is music and art, which will be there for you throughout your life, in whichever form you enjoy.
The pressure to pass exams now no longer comes just from families and teachers for the child themselves but putting schools up against each other , means that every child is seen as someone to get averages up etc, so you cannot even be sure now that teachers are giving best advice for the child rather than best advice for the schools sake, and being told or encouraged to do this from the headteachers.

I do see the need for physical education but think that the opportunity to teach relaxation tecniques to young children in junior school as part of physical ed, and it is very easy to do literally 5 minutes breathing exercise at the end of assembly or in the classroom or whatever. Once someone has understood and learnt to use these techniques, you have given them the tools to help themselves and the more they incorporate it within difficult circumstances, the more calm they will become and once you know the pattern to be able to help yourself to either avoid such situations, or at least feel you have something that you can do to help yourself is so worthwhile and important. To expect children especially in infants and juniors, to sit for long spells at a time is not the normal way for youth of any species to behave. Whilst we may be able to school ourselves to follow such patterns of behaviour , we do ourselves no favours by not thinking of our body and the way we sit or walk about. If you asked someone to walk constantly for an hour without stopping, looking round, speaking to anyone and with nothing interesting to look at or take note of, you would find it very difficult. Yet we are asking young children to do that equivalent sitting down for long periods . As head of communications, when I taught in the old days telex staff, I always said that they should look away for at least a minute every 10 minutes from the screen and that approximately every half hour, at least stand and preferably stretch and look as far away as possible. I had a boss at that time who thought this idea was wasting time, and I then spent a week collecting data and dividing people up and making charts etc., and was able to show him at the end of the week that by the end of each day , those who had stood and looked away etc , made less mistakes, did as much if not more than the other people and complained less. If as adults we need this, why do we think that children should spend most of their day following a regime that they rarely have any input into, timed to just fit with a pattern so that the one time they are totally engrossed and want to carry on and finish something they are made to put it away for another week etc. Is there any wonder that a child who has some particular difficulty then feels all these things add to the problems and feel trapped in this way of life. Those children who are able to project and look ahead can also be horrified to think that what and when they do things is going to be governed by someone else and they are helpless to change anything.

I have personal experience of such a situation, when as a child, who had gone to the dentist without any fuss, was then told the school dentist was coming. My mother thought good and agreed for me to see them. What neither of us knew was that the dentist would be coming in a caravan, and that I was claustrophbic. First time I had ever been in a caravan and felt the world closing in on me, but did not have the words to explain what was the problem. It was terrifying , and like being in a foreign land, as no one understood and thought I was hyperventilating because it was the dentist. More than 70 years later, whilst I do go to the dentist and have evolved ways to deal with it, the smell of the gas and the look of caravans still makes me stiffen up and have to overcome my immediate reaction. I can pick up moths and deal with all sorts of things that other people are phobics to, you do not choose what affects you, but if it is genuine, you cannot help it and having people say that you absolutely have to go there five days a week can feel like going in and out of prison to you!

FranP Thu 09-Oct-25 15:45:07

I volunteer in a school, arriving to join the late starter queue. Some parents are just too slow or uncaring to arrive on time, a few, due to school placement have children to deliver to more than one school, and then there are the screamers that mum has dragged to school creating a scene while they scream the reception area down (strangely they all seem to be fine once inside)
But there are the persistent day off children.

I cannot blame the parents who get fined though for simply taking the children on holiday, given the massive increase in costs during holiday time. My DS tells me that paying the fine is cheaper than holidaying out of school time. He did get a bit annoyed though when taking 2 days extra at the end of term only to find they had the children doing outdoor play and football in those 2 days.
The other side though is that teachers spend a lot of time on planning lessons for progress and then have to do catchups for individuals, especially where this affects their performance stats.

daughterofbonniebelle Thu 09-Oct-25 15:49:14

When I reflect on the brutality of my education, I wish I had refused to go to school! I still suffer the consequences. It took me till my early fifties to embrace the education I thirsted for. But in my school days there was nowhere else to go: Parents would not have understood and would not have engaged in home-schooling.

Mollygo Thu 09-Oct-25 16:04:05

I agree that fining the parents doesn’t seem as if it will achieve much.

What possible solutions are there?

Under certain conditions, you can ask the LEA to provide suitable and full-time home tuition, but how would that be staffed and which budget would that come from?

Sallywally1 Thu 09-Oct-25 16:20:15

Many, many years ago, I am 70 now! I stayed at home for a week, hidden in the cellar as I was mercilessly bullied at school and I was terrified. My parents obviously found out, but back then nothing was done of course. What earthly good would it have done to prosecute them when they knew nothing about it?

narrowboatnan Thu 09-Oct-25 17:38:03

Sarnia

It doesn't help at all, does it? There clearly is a problem why the child refuses to go to school and everyone concerned needs to find that problem and do what they can to sort it out. Just common sense really rather then, as you say, fine them and saddle them with a conviction. I'm sure the courts must be annoyed at cases like this adding to their workload.

Quite right. If a child doesn’t want to go home after school, red flags are raised and the reasons why are investigated. Surely, the same should happen if a child repeatedly doesn’t want to go to school?

petra Thu 09-Oct-25 17:48:35

daughterofbonniebelle

When I reflect on the brutality of my education, I wish I had refused to go to school! I still suffer the consequences. It took me till my early fifties to embrace the education I thirsted for. But in my school days there was nowhere else to go: Parents would not have understood and would not have engaged in home-schooling.

One teacher hit me so hard round my head he sent my glasses flying.
My friend who went home for lunch told her mum who told my mum.
Afternoon session has started, in walks my mother who grabs him by the shirt and tie and whacked him round the head.
A few years later we read in the local paper that he had gone to prison for assault on a child.
I was just thankful that my father wasn’t at home ( at sea) because I know at the very least he would have ended up in hospital ( the teacher that is) 😂

4allweknow Thu 09-Oct-25 17:57:25

Why does it appear to centre around all happening since a teenager? All that effort by organisations yet girl unrelenting. As she wouldn't get on a bus was she ever encouraged to walk the mile to school. That's not far for a teenager.

Debbi58 Thu 09-Oct-25 18:23:41

One of our granddaughter's ( now 13) was fine at primary. It was senior school, she absolutely hated it , refused to go in . If my daughter got her dressed and starting walking in with her , she would turn an run home . We tried everything, so for the last year , she has lived with me , grandad and her Aunt. She's home schooled and doing really well. Much happier, learning to cook , she even did some decorating with grandad. She can take her gsces at our local college if she wants too .

Allira Thu 09-Oct-25 18:24:44

Sallywally1

Many, many years ago, I am 70 now! I stayed at home for a week, hidden in the cellar as I was mercilessly bullied at school and I was terrified. My parents obviously found out, but back then nothing was done of course. What earthly good would it have done to prosecute them when they knew nothing about it?

Good point Sallywally.
One of my DGC was being horribly bullied but bottled it all up. Perhaps she thought she would get into worse trouble for some reason. The school is dealing with it but not robustly enough imo.

Sometimes complaints of stomach aches, headaches etc might be psychosomatic caused by such stress but the physical symptoms can be real enough.

Maremia Thu 09-Oct-25 18:33:23

With your now older children, have you ever talked about why going to school was a challenge for them? Or would that be too difficult and triggering, and it's in the past, so why bother? The posters who mentioned bullying, yes, that is a factor.

Allira Thu 09-Oct-25 18:37:40

Maremia

With your now older children, have you ever talked about why going to school was a challenge for them? Or would that be too difficult and triggering, and it's in the past, so why bother? The posters who mentioned bullying, yes, that is a factor.

In the case of DC3, yes, she has only just told me how badly she was bullied by a boy in her class. He was quite violent.
She bottled it all up but I think she was glad to talk about it at last.
However, she did go to school but left to go to Sixth form college elsewhere.

AuntieE Thu 09-Oct-25 19:26:13

It sounds odd to me that the court acknowledged that the parents had done everything they could and then went on to fine them. I don't know the ins and outs of the particular case, so I cannot comment on it.

Fining parents for their children's misbehaviour, whether non-attendance at school or vandalism may perhaps help if the parents don't really care what a child does, but do care about the contents of the ir bank accounts! And sadly, as a school-teacher, I have met this extreme in a very, very few cases.

It seems to me that a lot of parents, especially of young children now, either assume that a child's unhappiness at school will pass, or assume that it is the school's job to solve the problem.

To a certain extent, it is naturally a matter that the school involved should be able to deal with, if a child is being bullied by classmates, picked upon by a member of the staff, has learning difficulties, including dyslexia, which sadly many schools and local authorities wait far too long before attempting to deal with.

On the other hand the parents are, or should be, the people who know the child best and therefore best can judge if the resistance to going to school is something the child is just trying on (which in my experience is very rare indeed) or is caused because there is something going on at school that the adults there are failing to address.

Parents today tend too to be very relunctant to take a child out of school and find a school that suits the child better. This I do not understand at all, as if speaking to the form mistress or master and to the head changes nothing at all, it should be the next step.

What complicates the whole issue is the fact that a child, irrespective of age, may be unwilling or actually totally unable to express what is wrong, and frankly no-one can be blamed for failing to solve a problem if it is impossible to ascertain what the problem is. But there again, parents usually know their children well enough to make a qualified guess if they run up against, "I don't know." as the answer to all their questions.

And teachers too, usually have a fairly shrewd idea of what goes on in and out of their classrooms.

But it takes time and patience to find out what is really wrong, and time is something that few parents with full-time jobs, a home to run and children to raise have an abundance of, and teachers are increasingly expected to deal with reading government circulars, submitting complicated time-lines for when in the course of a term they intend to deal with the various things that make up the annual ciriculum and write assessments of pupils, so they do not have a lot of spare time to devote to the poor children "who don't fit in" or "don't want to go to school".

That said, we cannot just hope the problem will solve itself - it will rarely do so, and no child should be miserable at school or feel genuinely sick every morning, so these problems must be solved.

undines Thu 09-Oct-25 21:03:36

witzend and easybee children used to get beaten - maybe we should go back to that, and end this nonsense, eh?

JPB123 Thu 09-Oct-25 21:14:39

Well said,keeping quiet.

justwokeup Fri 10-Oct-25 00:16:24

Allira
Further down the report there’s an indication that the girl was not fine at school:

He added they regularly received phone calls from the school to say the girl had locked herself in the bathroom or left the premises.
"This couple are really trying their best to ensure [their daughter] attends school, they're taking her every day.
"My understanding is the staff can't physically restrain her and keep her on the premises – if she leaves, she leaves."

I do wonder if the school should have received a fine too for not keeping the girl safe once she was inside school. How are the parents expected to do more than all the adults at this school could do?
There are some really thoughtful replies here from many people who have experienced this behaviour. Those who haven’t, I’m sure, can’t imagine the heartbreak of carrying your much-loved reception-age GC into school screaming, struggling and sobbing. You ask yourself am I hurting them? What is happening to them in school to make this usually happy child behave like this? Most teachers really try hard but they have the whole class to think about.
Key to this report I think is that the child has SEN. My (very intelligent) GC with SEN is not only anxious about going to school, they are not capable of doing what neurotypical children their age can do and that bewilders and frustrates them. Their current teacher doesn’t seem to understand their condition at all and sets targets/judges behaviour by standards which are not emotionally, physically or cognitively possible for them. Often they are physically bullied by classmates for behaving differently and then get privileges withdrawn by teachers for reacting in a similar manner. This from a school which prides itself on being inclusive! Diagnosis takes MANY years in our area and a referral to CAHMS many months. Even getting an EHCP meeting is a battle. Apparently more and more SEN children in the UK are quietly going under the radar, staying at home because the school, LEA (and family) do not have an alternative solution for them.
I very much doubt my GC will go to school either when they are strong enough to vote with their feet. They are desperate for friends but increasingly it seems that school is not a positive environment for their development. I really don’t know what the answer is. I do know that nothing will happen without more wearying battles with the authorities, completing realms of complicated paperwork and endless frustration.

Luckygirl3 Fri 10-Oct-25 07:43:33

This is exactly what puzzled me AuntiE. The court recognised that the parents had done all they could then went on to criminalise them.

ReadyMeals Fri 10-Oct-25 08:51:13

I don't really understand why, if the age of criminal responsibility is 10 (too young imho but bear with me) why the child isn't initially held responsible for not attending school. School refusal at 13 upwards cannot be down to the parents as children that age are too large to be dragged into school by their mum and that's probably illegal anyway. If having ruled out any good reason (of which there are many and should be dealt with sympathetically), the youngster is still not turning up, if we bring back the enforcement officers to do the dragging in there could be weekend detention centres as penalty for kids who are just being obstinate. You know, punish the person who is doing the non-attending not the unfortunate mum whose nagging and pocket money withholding is not working.

keepingquiet Fri 10-Oct-25 09:12:27

ReadyMeals

I don't really understand why, if the age of criminal responsibility is 10 (too young imho but bear with me) why the child isn't initially held responsible for not attending school. School refusal at 13 upwards cannot be down to the parents as children that age are too large to be dragged into school by their mum and that's probably illegal anyway. If having ruled out any good reason (of which there are many and should be dealt with sympathetically), the youngster is still not turning up, if we bring back the enforcement officers to do the dragging in there could be weekend detention centres as penalty for kids who are just being obstinate. You know, punish the person who is doing the non-attending not the unfortunate mum whose nagging and pocket money withholding is not working.

Not attending school is not a crime. Before austerity, every school had an EWO (educational welfare officer) whose job it was to check on students not attending.
After the cuts these EWO had to take on the load of several schools and just couldn't keep up.
It is now the job of the school itself (and working with other agencies) to monitor attendance and to intervene when necessary.
Your language is saying these children should be 'dragged' to school betrays a lack of nuance in understanding these complex situations.
If parents are unable to encourage their children to attend school at normal times, how are they ever going to take them to 'detention' centres at weekends?
Who will staff these centres? Where will they be? How will the students get there? Who will pay for them? What will the children do there?
If you think a little bit more on these things and not just use negative language such as detention or nagging I think you will begin to see how untenable your proposal might be.

daughterofbonniebelle Fri 10-Oct-25 10:22:02

I wish I had refused the brutal schooling I suffered from, back in the day, which still haunts me many decades later. It destroyed my sense of self and it took me till my fifties, and many years of therapy, to be able to embrace education. Refusing, of course, not an option then, as there was no home schooling and parents and school would have ensured I suffered in silence and went to the place of torture.

Jaxjacky Fri 10-Oct-25 10:55:57

ReadyMeals weekend detention, barbaric, have you seen suicide rates amongst those either excluded from school or persistently absent?
Spare the rod, spoil the child, great idea not.
Regarding home teaching, it just isn’t possible for many who work, particularly single parents, or should they give up their jobs and claim benefits.