Goodbye Duke & Duchess of York.

I so agree eazybee

Allira

So you are saying that children choose that lifestyle, ie prostitution?

I can't believe I'm reading this, posted, presumably, by women!

Same, Allira. I'm horrified by that attitude.

Men who use prostitutes are in my view one step away from rapists. As a group they generally figure very highly in domestic violence and other crimes.

I respect your view eazybee and of course, none of us will probably ever know the real truth. "Recollections may vary" (such a meaningful and diplomatic turn of phrase!).

However, your summing up of Roberts' life up until that point compared to that of a privileged, rather entitled and arrogant Prince of the Realm and his wealthy, influential (but nevertheless depraved) friend Epstein et al only indicate, to me, those who were in the driving seat and those who were pulled along as passengers.

Is sex consensual if it is undertaken under coercion or manipulation? I think not. And I do believe that most of the girls were vlunerable and needy enough to be taken in by the promises of Maxwell and Epstein, they were somewhat overawed by the trappings of wealth and eventually allowed themselves to be lured into this rather seedy underbelly of sexual abuse by powerful men.

If Prince Andrew had an otherwise unblemished past, I'd perhaps be more inclined to question all the apparent "perks" of his friendship with Epstein. But he doesn't. He's cost the Royal Family and the UK a lot in terms of credibility and respect as well as squandering public money by using his "Trade Envoy" post to finance luxury holidays, expensive golfing trips and the like.

Galaxy

Men who use prostitutes are in my view one step away from rapists. As a group they generally figure very highly in domestic violence and other crimes.

If a child is under the age of consent then it is statutory rape.

Indeed.

Thank you for your considered view of my comments, Ferry23.
I agree about PA's privileged life; I have no idea if he is arrogant and boorish as claimed, and I think his association with Epstein was reprehensible; more to do with loans of money and making influential contacts than the company of young girls, possibly underlined with blackmail.
But I don't think the sex Virginia Guiffre participated in was through coercion or manipulation. She 'obliged' for two years then left when she met her husband. The lurid tale telling came later when she was facing trouble, and in need of money. I cannot remember the details of her depositions, sealed or otherwise, but she did go back on her word, and some names were pursued more intensely than others. I don't know of anyone else being pilloried by the press; it seems all about Andrew.
Perhaps it is because he stoutly maintains he has no recollection of her.

A sad life, and some of it at least due to her bad choices.
Why write this book?

I have no idea if he is arrogant and boorish as claimed

We have two friends who can confirm that from his time in the Royal Navy, even back then.

A sad life, and some of it at least due to her bad choices.
Why write this book?

A therapeutic thing to do.
Her way of explaining to her children, perhaps, the truth of her life as there was, is and will be, so many cover-ups and lies in the media about what happened on that island of depravity.

A sad life, and some of it at least due to her bad choices indeed eazybee.

She could have done that without writing a book for publication Allira.

Oh my goodness.

Still criticising and blaming the victim.
Making 'bad choices' at 14!

You sound like those whom blamed the victims of the gangs in this country.

eazybee

Thank you for your considered view of my comments, Ferry23.
I agree about PA's privileged life; I have no idea if he is arrogant and boorish as claimed, and I think his association with Epstein was reprehensible; more to do with loans of money and making influential contacts than the company of young girls, possibly underlined with blackmail.
But I don't think the sex Virginia Guiffre participated in was through coercion or manipulation. She 'obliged' for two years then left when she met her husband. The lurid tale telling came later when she was facing trouble, and in need of money. I cannot remember the details of her depositions, sealed or otherwise, but she did go back on her word, and some names were pursued more intensely than others. I don't know of anyone else being pilloried by the press; it seems all about Andrew.
Perhaps it is because he stoutly maintains he has no recollection of her.

A sad life, and some of it at least due to her bad choices.
Why write this book?

Ah, good question eazybee - "Why write this book"?

As with many "tell all" books I'm always torn between a rightfully aggrieved/abused/violated/cheated upon (insert what you will) person genuinely wanting to uncover the truth perhaps for noble, altruistic reasons.

Or somebody who can dish the dirt on the rich and famous and sees endless pounds (or dollar) signs.

I could be entirely wrong here and we'll never know, but Guiffre had a very nice settlement so didn't need the money and by opening the lid on the can of worms she did expose herself and probably went through a lot of upset and grief in the process. I would like to think that she wrote the book in an attempt to cleanse herself and achieve some kind of closure- but whatever the reason she was clearly a troubled girl and woman who had to deal with a whole lot of adversities as a child and young adult.

Allira

Oh my goodness.

Still criticising and blaming the victim.
Making 'bad choices' at 14!

You sound like those whom blamed the victims of the gangs in this country.

Indeed. And many of those poor girls were also described as 'child prostitutes' although they were in their very early teens. I'm sorry, but it IS victim blaming, no matter how some people attempt to justify it.

Allira

LovesBach

The family who seemingly did little to help her, and the father who organised the kind of employment most fathers would be horrified to discover their daughter was involved with, are suddenly 'crying with relief' and feeling that the events 'vindicate Virginia'. Quite sickening - and possibly a case for more publications and money grabbing.

How are step-siblongs supposed to help a sister when they had a father like that? Brought up in a chaotic household?

Victim blaming yet again.

No, Allira, I am absolutely not victim blaming, and how you have found that in my post amazes me. I have said nothing about Virginia, and certainly nothing unsympathetic about her fragmented life, only about the family who were not there when it mattered but seem to be now - so who is the victim there, please?

I wouldnt begin to judge either the person, or the behaviour, of someone[and so many like her] who were brought up like she was.

How can we know how we would be, if we had been in her shoes?

Written before the last post was posted.

I wish there was less interest in the one rich individual and more notice taken of Virginia Giuffre's main point, that the cause of child molestation on that scale is disdain for women and girls plus institutionalised belief in entitlement .

The thread is about the ex-Duke and ex-Duchess of York.

York must be relieved!

eazybee

Thank you for your considered view of my comments, Ferry23.
I agree about PA's privileged life; I have no idea if he is arrogant and boorish as claimed, and I think his association with Epstein was reprehensible; more to do with loans of money and making influential contacts than the company of young girls, possibly underlined with blackmail.
But I don't think the sex Virginia Guiffre participated in was through coercion or manipulation. She 'obliged' for two years then left when she met her husband. The lurid tale telling came later when she was facing trouble, and in need of money. I cannot remember the details of her depositions, sealed or otherwise, but she did go back on her word, and some names were pursued more intensely than others. I don't know of anyone else being pilloried by the press; it seems all about Andrew.
Perhaps it is because he stoutly maintains he has no recollection of her.

A sad life, and some of it at least due to her bad choices.
Why write this book?

Ad hominen.

Giuffre's expose is needed . Institutionalised entitlement to sex must stop.

On a side note, I've just read a post on Twitter about an aide to an American state governor being sentenced for 'engaging in sex' with a six-year-old - yes, a six-year-old. That's rape by anyone's standards - and I wish press reports would make that clear.

The book from V Guiffrie doesn’t cross with the agreement she accepted millions from ?

Anniebach

The book from V Guiffrie doesn’t cross with the agreement she accepted millions from ?

Oh, was that hush money?
Keep your mouth 🤐

That says a lot for our ignoble Prince.

Allira.

I didn’t post as fact, I just asked a question , didn’t see the cheque so not the foggiest who gave the money

Anniebach,

The book from V Guiffrie doesn’t cross with the agreement she accepted millions from ?

Oh, was that hush money?
Keep your mouth 🤐

She didn't sign a non disclosure agreement Annie it was an out of court settlement.