Goodbye Duke & Duchess of York.

OldFrill

Labradora

Isn't a Prince better than a Duke ?
Insofar as one can know at all therefore like/dislike anyone who is basically a celebrity , I never liked Andrew but only because I understood that he was horrible to his staff , which I found unforgiveable.
What a shame he ( or indeed anyone) got involved with this hideous, sordid couple of Epstein(and Maxwell).
I have never minded Sarah too much because she has never, to my knowledge, said an unkind or disloyal word about her ex-husband and surely that should count for something.
What are they all going to do about Maxwell ?
They can't kill her now she is out of the tough jail , it would look too suspicious .
I suppose they'll have to make it worth her while to keep quiet.
Actually I'm astonished that she's still alive.

I don't think standing by your husband when he is having sex with a trafficked, vulnerable young woman something a wife should be commended for.
The lies Sarah has told over the years are second to none.
She neither treated her staff well, nor always paid them.
Who murdered Epstein.

Again it's a point of view , Old Frill.
I don't know who murdered Epstein but I think somebody did, as do many people. Epstein's former lawyer was on CNN umpty months ago saying that Epstein was enthusiastically making plans to appeal convictions or fight a pending case (I can't remember which).Also Epstein didn't strike me as the suicidal type. I think, at least, someone threatened him or someone he cared for, with something and invited Epstein to kill himself as an alternative. I have no proof of this.

Let’s face it we, most of us have feet of clay, and the RF are no different to us.
To me they are now an irrelevance, I wouldn’t want a revolution, heaven forfend but they should quietly just fade into the background.
The Foreign Royals have done so and manage very well without a President.
If we have a government, that is surely enough, the RF have absolutely no influence or power.
I have no strong views on any other matter, religion, politics, are of little significance to me as long as nothing really dreadful takes place but over privileged individuals eave me cold.
Prince Andrew and his wife have exploited their titles and privilege to excess and are now learning it catches up in the end.

Curlywhirly

The timing of this is interesting. Could it be that Andrew (and the King) are expecting more unsavoury revelations to be revealed in Virginia Guiffre's book launch on Tuesday?

What is far more interesting , is that the RF is sending the loudest clearest warning to Harry and Meghan,

THIS IS WHAT WE CAN DO TO YOU TOO.

ferry23

Following the accusations earlier this week, Prince Andrew has relinquished his title Duke of York. Same for his ex-wife.

He will still keep his title of Prince Andrew.

But I guess that's the end of the titled road for Fergie.

Meghan should take note.

Yes, ferry23, you’re right but I didn’t think that Andrew had been accused of procuring and trafficking. It’s plausible that he didn’t realise it was happening. He doesn’t appear to be a deep thinker.
I don’t question the seriousness of Epstein’s convictions , of course I don’t, I just wonder whether Andrew is paying an excessively high price for his own degree of involvement because he is already unpopular and disliked for other reasons.

I don't think Andrew or Sarah can be very bright.

Aveline

I don't think Andrew or Sarah can be very bright.

Lol. Says it all really 😄😄

I feel sorry for their daughters. They are a bit dippy but seem like nice young women. They have had very privileged lives.

I still wonder how Andrew can give £13 million to the woman he claims he never had anything to do with.

Primrose53

I feel sorry for their daughters. They are a bit dippy but seem like nice young women. They have had very privileged lives.

I still wonder how Andrew can give £13 million to the woman he claims he never had anything to do with.

Don't be fooled into thinking they haven't taken advantage of their parent's wealthy contacts. But I suppose they were brought up knowing no different.

winterwhite

Yes, ferry23, you’re right but I didn’t think that Andrew had been accused of procuring and trafficking. It’s plausible that he didn’t realise it was happening. He doesn’t appear to be a deep thinker.
I don’t question the seriousness of Epstein’s convictions , of course I don’t, I just wonder whether Andrew is paying an excessively high price for his own degree of involvement because he is already unpopular and disliked for other reasons.

I tend to agree with you, Winterwhite.

Oh please. He might not be the sharpest nail in the box but he stayed in Epstein's townhouse on his visits where young girls were ushered in and out sometimes all day long and the walls covered in, well, let's be polite and say 'questionable' artwork featuring young girls. He went to Epstein's private Caribbean island more than once where girls were flown in for the pleasure of the guests. The redacted names on the flight list are quite possibly those of underage girls. How could he NOT know

Virginia Guiffre was quite clear that Andrew knew she had been trafficked. So let's believe the victim to whom he paid millions rather than the abuser who bought his way out a court case and likely prison sentence

They will probably make millions writing a book.

Virginia Guiffre was a paid prostitute at the time the alleged incident took place.
Vulnerable yes, but look to her family, who were not there when she was living on the streets as a young teenager.
Then her father found her a job at Mar -a- Lago as a masseuse.
Now exploiting her for every penny they can.

Women who are used by those men who buy sex are generally very vulnerable. We don't just sacrifice vulnerable women to these vile men.

Fergie is not being let off the hook. The MOS gets a lot of flak on Gransnet as does anyone who dares to admit reading it but quite frankly I’d rather know that the then Duchess of York was one of the first to celebrate Epstein’s release from prison, accompanied by both her daughters.
I suspect once again it was his money that attracted her loyalty.
So much has been swept under the carpet.

eazybee

Virginia Guiffre was a paid prostitute at the time the alleged incident took place.
Vulnerable yes, but look to her family, who were not there when she was living on the streets as a young teenager.
Then her father found her a job at Mar -a- Lago as a masseuse.
Now exploiting her for every penny they can.

Victim blaming?

🤔

I think to lump all the royals as an over privileged and irrelevant lot is unfair, Andrew certainly was and is an appalling example if ever there was one. Here's what the Observer has to say about William, under the title of "Fresh Prince" Andrew is disgraced. Harry has gone. William plans for a downsized monarchy, with fewer people on the balcony and a bigger impact on the ground. At its head will be a man who carries his own bags, cooks spag bol for his family - and knows what to say when he sits down with a child who whispers "I lost my mother" They may be uncle and nephew, but worlds apart.

On the subject of young girls and prostitution I don't think for one moment that is ever a life style choice, as in "what do I want to be, oh a prostitute sounds good lucrative career" coercion and trickery by someone more powerful is often the slippery downward slope that finds young women mere disposable pawns.

The family who seemingly did little to help her, and the father who organised the kind of employment most fathers would be horrified to discover their daughter was involved with, are suddenly 'crying with relief' and feeling that the events 'vindicate Virginia'. Quite sickening - and possibly a case for more publications and money grabbing.

There was not one single 'alleged' incident. It was a lengthy sustained period of calculated sexual abuse.

The victim's background and upbringing was such that she was easily manipulated and easily taken in by dishonest promises and the lure of a lifestyle she could only dream of. Much the same as all the other girls caught up in the sleazy, tawdry and depraved lifestyle of Epstein and his cronies.

Victim blaming and shaming is such an ugly way of explaining away the misfortunes of those who are faced with sexual predators.

LovesBach

The family who seemingly did little to help her, and the father who organised the kind of employment most fathers would be horrified to discover their daughter was involved with, are suddenly 'crying with relief' and feeling that the events 'vindicate Virginia'. Quite sickening - and possibly a case for more publications and money grabbing.

How are step-siblongs supposed to help a sister when they had a father like that? Brought up in a chaotic household?

Victim blaming yet again.

No it is not necessarily victim blaming but it is recognising the facts as far as they are known. Roberts, as she then was, had a troubled childhood, ran away from home, lived on the streets and was under the protection of a sex trafficker for some months, Eventually reunited with her father,( mother?) he then found her a job at Mar-a-Lago, where she was recruited by Maxwell for Epstein, and worked for him for over two years without coercion.
The headlines of this new book she has put her name to refers to her being raped by Prince Andrew, which is not so; according to her she consented to sex; according to him he did not have sex with her. She later left Epstein's employment without any recriminations.
She was made to answer questions about her involvement with Epstein only after the police, in Australia I believe, told her they were investigating the recruitment of fourteen year old girls and she had been named.
The point I am making is that she was not a seventeen naive ingenue when she entered Epstein's world. She had escaped from that milieu but willingly chose to return, and later to leave. She chose to pursue Prince Andrew, and to make as much money as she could out of her association, some of which went to her charity S.O.A.R.
Her marriage fell apart; she was estranged from her children, and I wonder at her motivation in writing this book, before committing suicide. Her half-siblings are circling and looking to capitalise on her life, apparently having insisted on re-writing parts because she was not hard enough on her ex-husband.
I feel the reporting, and the condemnation, is very one-sided.

Not just Andrew, who has brought total shame on the Royal Family, but I notice Tony Blair was a visitor to Epstein's mansion. This wouldn't surprise me at all as if it involved making a few million and adding another contact to his list, Blair would be there.

I feel the reporting, and the condemnation, is very one-sided I agree eazybee.

So you are saying that children choose that lifestyle, ie prostitution?

I can't believe I'm reading this, posted, presumably, by women!