Not ‘ school-ready’.

In the eighties the nursery I worked at would not take children who were not toilet trained, it was an authority setting where we took from age 3. Modern disposable nappies are less uncomfortable than terry nappies when wet, my children were dry before they were two because they hated being in heavy wet nappies. In recent years I have experienced children of 4 are often sent to nursery in disposable nappies even when we can see they are capable of going to the toilet. Many don't want to us cutlery, because they are used to eating things that they can pick up such as nuggets, chips, pizza etc. this is one reason why children don't like to eat foods that require cutlery. It doesn't seem to be connected to mothers having to work and not having time either, many with SAH mums are just as likey to have these problems. So many claim children have allergies and developmental problems that really don't. I think so many want to feel special.

A lot of homes nowadays are too small to have a permanent dining table. This leads to a bowl and spoon style of meal serving, or finger food, that can be eaten on the sofa. Then at school they are sat at a table with a knife and fork. It's gonna take a little while to get used to. I'd expect any child who has been in nursery day care to be able to use a toilet. If not, the failure is down to the place they spend most of their day in (the nursery) as well as the parent. When I was a parent of young children I had the luxury of being able to stay home for a week or so until the habit of asking for the potty was established. These days both parents are expected to scurry all over the place and since people disapprove of you pulling down your kids pants to let them pee in a corner of the road, and there are not many public toilets anyway, they are in nappies while out. Parents had more time and options when we were bringing up our kids

A friend recommended a book called "Potty Training in Less than a Day". I tried it when DS was just 2 but failed, then 3 months later it worked. I think if parents had to deal with soggy toweling nappies, nappy bucket and Napisan they would soon get children potty trained.
On the other hand, DS couldn't tie his shoe laces when he started school however hard I tried to teach him. His teacher wouldn't help but he told me that the little girls in his class helped him.

Yes, but Scotland isn’t the entire UK is it? My son started school the month after his fourth birthday. Although being autistic he had one to one support and they put him on a beanbag with his special blanket to have an afternoon nap.

I was raised with 2 brothers and 2 sisters and as far back as i can remember we had set times for meals and always at the table and you learnt to use a knife and fork and spoon and you did not leave the table till my father said so and your plate was clean and in the evenings my father often got us to read from books and we had to tell him what we had been doing all day . This made us to grow up and be responsible people

Before mothers had to wash wet/soiled nappies and this was the pushing point, stop all this avoidable work potty train your children Advertising is the biggest culprit these days, it brought in the idea that children should be ready, not before, however, no child wants to break off from playing.
Parents want to be friends with their DC, children mustn’t be made to feel they have to do something they don’t want to do. So potty training is put aside because everything is child-led.

France has the same problem, M. Macron has lowered the school compulsory starting to three, so some parents leave the toilet training to teachers, as before, schools would only accept those who were clean.

ferry23 my chikdren too had to be fully toilet trained before allowed to attend playgroup. Age for entry was 3 years and as far as I know all the children were comfortable managing toileting. Disposable nappies play a big part in the toileting issue as just wipe and dispose abd children feel comfy. If nappies had to be washed parents would be keen to get rid of them. Another result of disposable is the babies on holidays. Who in their right mind would take a child needing washable nappies on holiday especially overseas. Some parents think their life should just continue as it was before children arrived and are not prepared to make any adjustments or sacrifices.

The children in France are also expected to eat at the school canteen correctly, starters main course and dessert, no pizzas or finger food and no fussy eaters, of course allergies are taken into consideration.

Local school menus. I stand corrected, if there is a starter there is no dessert.

I d doubt if it's possible. but would suggest that schools should inform parents that if the children are not toilet trained they must send them in wearing disposable nappies. If they don't , the school will send them a bill for what has been provided.

Is it due to the grey weather. Or am I just feeling so depressed with this world where children don't have a dining table, some dont have a bed, don't know how to use cutlery or use a potty/toilet. Where some parents are on their bl**dy phones all the time scrolling nonsense so kids don't learn to talk or read.

Where and why has it all gone so so wrong.

A retired friend of mine worked as a school secretary and mentioned these problems years ago.

That quite a lot of ordinary children were not toilet trained and could hardly speak or talk when thet got
to primary school Never mind read

She thought that theirbparents were completely feckless and just couldn't care less about them And hardly any of them had a job.They just sat at home lazing and drinking all day covered in tattoos playing with their various dogs
..
She also thought some of these parents really had
kids to get the all the welfare benefits they could.

So don't give them excuses re new nappy design, no money or exhaustion from stress and overwork.

I do feel sorry for these kids as it is not their fault. But this situation is a direct result of Labour Policies and rule going back to that awful,arrogant Blair.

Whereby they created and championed this so called Under Class of people to be irresponsible and dependent on the state.

You know when being a one parent family with four kids was a valid career choice. And a guaranteed at least a three bedroom Social Housing house and all the trimmings

The. Shameless Generations.

These people were and still are their future voters. And Labour is still throwing benefits at them

Labour hates their older, white British decent voters with a passion. And have for years because they spoke out and questioned them.

I don't know what the answer is.But we all have to live with the fall out.

I must admit that when I heard about children not being toilet trained, I was quite judgemental 🙄 but then I read an article (from the Ecologist I believe) that explained that for years, nappy companies (Big Nappy so to speak) had been subtly encouraging parents to delay toilet training so that the ‘optimum window’ between 20 and 30 months was missed. Apparently trying after then can be fraught with difficulties as children have often learned to be manipulative. It made a lot of sense to me anyway. From memory I think I started potty training with my four when they were about 2 and I don’t remember any huge problems

My daughter is an LSA and had to cover reception recently (staff shortages) she was shocked at how many aren’t toilet trained. But the teachers and LSA’s are not allowed to intervene. They take them to the toilet, but the child has to clean themselves up. They are not allowed to touch them. Children used to have to be toilet trained before they were allowed to go to play school, back in the day. It’s madness now.

The trouble with it, is that children with genuine medical issues get hidden behind all the children of cannot be bothered parents. Yes, they are busy, but I had to work (a demanding job) but my child care/nurseries supported my toilet training, so my just-turned 3-year old starting "infant" class in a primary school was fully trained - his teacher did have spare clothing for the occasional accidents in her class. I though DD was a bit slow when she was 2 before being dry.

Fallingstar

Am not entirely sure this percentage is right, after all they can’t canvass all schools and parents in the UK, a selection would have to be made. All my GCs were school ready, and most people we know who have GCs seem to have ACs who manage to get their children ready for school, same goes for our AC’s friends who have children.

I agree, I'm certainly not award of any children wearing nappies in my grandchildren's classes, not of children with obviously wet pants - other than the occasional accident! Many children go to nursery now and I understand that most of them are dry before they go to school.

Where does the percentage figure in th op come from?

CariadAgain

Mamie

CariadAgain

Mamie

In France children cannot start school, which is compulsory at age 3, without bring toilet trained or vaccinated. Seems to work fine.

My definition of a "parsons egg" there Mamie - ie good in parts.

Good that they have to be toilet-trained.

Bad that = how does one get round the fact if you've decided not to have them vaccinated? (do you have to send them to a private school or home-educate them if they've not been jabbed?).

There are very few private schools (mostly religious) and whilst home education is no longer banned, it is very tightly regulated. There are 11 compulsory vaccinations pre school and only medical reasons for exemption.
Liberty, Equality, Fraternity are still very important here and you are expected to do your part as a good citizen. You do your best for the state and in return the state looks after you.
My experience after 20 years here is that French people love to protest, but in the end they do as they are told.
I remember all the people saying they would never have a Covid vaccination, until they did. 😂

Not a country I'm familiar with. Now trying to remember what nationality a man here that I bumped into/had a long chat with one time was from - because I was highly amused at his description of us. His comment was "You British - everyone thinks you are so passive and quiet - until you aren't! If you do strongly decide on something - then watch the British go and they will fight". That was about the gist of it - ie how determined we can be if we make up our minds.

He obviously found it amusing to have noted that about us.

Errrrm.....I wasn't going to disagree with him - being someone myself who "Once I make up my mind = that's It!".
I know lots who said they weren't going to have that jab - including me. Most of us indeed didn't have it - including me and it's firmly in our minds as "That is our decision to make - one way or another". There were one or two who lied and kept a bit quiet about it. But basically the vast majority of us that said we weren't going to do so didn't do so. I know of about 1 or 2 liars and have come across 3 who got blackmailed into it by an employer (eg carers). So - yep - by and large we did (or didnt) do exactly what we'd said......

I'm only too glad I was/am retired and so no question of any employer trying to blackmail me into it. I'm about 90% certain my response would have been "See you in court then for unfairly dismissing me - hope you've got your chequebook ready...as I'm after compensation for that". Another 5% of my thoughts being "Well if that's their attitude and they intend to do that on me = not much point on trying to do that to a corpse - I'm quite ready to leave Earth sooner than have someone else make my decisions for me". I'm pretty sure I would have seen no point in staying put if even my own personal major decisions were getting made for me and imposed on me and I was a seething little ball of anger ......and people have found out before now that it wasn't a good idea to try and find out how strongwilled I can be if need be. You know that fact is not exactly under wraps when someone from elsewhere in the country you've never met rings you up about a query of yours you asked them and are killing themselves laughing at the end of the phone saying "What on earth have you done to so-and-so - as he's swearing blue murder about you?". I'd never met the man concerned....

So I think a fair number of us do mean what we say when it comes to it...and pushing us too far is not a good idea LOL.

I know I also noticed the increase in divorces going on around me at that time too - one of the divorcees had put one of them in a caravan some distance down their farm whilst the other half lived in the house (as they had opposite viewpoints on it all). Yep..that was.one of the divorces. I was very glad I was single - as I watched all the "crashing and burning" of relationships going on around me.

Children as young as 4 are being taught at the privately run, suspected illegal, Hope School, Netherfield, Sussex to shoot with real weapons. Children are shown posing with semi automatic weapons with their faces blanked out.

The school is run by conspiracy theorists against the “state”. Ofsted were refused entry to the school and apparently have no powers to do so as they are only “suspected to be illegal”. This was in the Sunday Times this week. Another article was published by the Times in 2024. In the interim, nothing has changed.

A lot of the time I’m rendered completely speechless to what’s going on in this country.

It seems to be from a survey by an early years charity, it does seem consistent with other info online.

My daughter used to work in a nursery. Several parents would announce that they were starting to potty/toilet train their toddlers. The nursery would work hard with the children and they would be pretty much out of nappies. They'd have a week or two on holiday with the parents and by the time they came back they were back in nappies, parents saying they were too busy on holiday to continue without nappies!

Erm...try looking a bit further back politically than Tony Blair WithNobsOnIt a certain Tory woman PM successfully managed to rip the heart out of many, many working communities creating the all the ills you describe and which have never recovered.

Regarding not toilet training your child preschool, why on Earth would you want strangers involved in the intimate care of your child? I would imagine the school staff responsible feel equally really uncomfortable wiping any child's but their own bottom on a regular basis.

An occasional emergency where it can't be helped is acceptable but it's just weird, to me, to expect others to have to do something so personal just once never mind every single day. Has anyone ever asked the teaching staff anywhere what their views are on this?

@watermeadow @Oreo but a typically developing child should be dry and clean, barring the occasional accident when ill or upset, at least in the daytime by three, so about a full year before they go to school.

I recall children at school in my childhood who had many other problems and for longer. Grubby, smelly, who wore wellies all year or plimsolls in winter, some children with persistent nits and who, in those days, had their hair shaved off as thé parents were unable to eradicate them and the home was beyond help. Telltale purple splodges of violet round mouths. These children, shunned at school, will now be grandparents. It’s takes generations, persistence and support, to raise standards of child care, in many instances.

@rowyn who’s going to change these nappies? Should the teacher stop teaching and leave the class to do it? Change several nappies at playtime? Are there any changing benches available in mainstream schools? Are teachers actually allowed to do intimate care without supervision? The school budgets are stretched as it is and teaching assistants are few and far between. Many have lost their jobs in recent years, those that remain are needed to support children with education and care plans, not to change nappies (they are often not allowed to help a child wipe themselves after using the toilet due to safeguarding issues). Will the parents also be billed for the cost of employing someone just to change nappies?

PoppyBlue

*Sign of the times, I'm afraid. I feel so sad when I see young Mums with a small child in a buggy who is being completely ignored because Mum is more interested with her phone than to interact with her little one.*

Or she could have older children in school?
Adding money to their dinner card.
Answering their message.
Forgot their PE kit.
Ordering a revision guide
Reading the report
Booking parents evening
Putting a food shop through
Sending pics
Paying a bill
Replying to a text
Finishing an email to a teacher...
Reading another bulletin
PSHE bulletin
Parent pay!

As previous posters have mentioned when a child starts school (SEND children apart) unable to use cutlery, have a chat with another child, know colours or be dry and clean then something has been lacking in the years running up to starting school. IMO a lot of blame lies with phones and technology. Some mothers are obsessed with it. I can see it becoming an addiction for many. Time spent on screens is time lost for interaction with a small child. They are like little sponges when they are small, so curious about the world. Those years when my 5 children were little were some of the best years of my life and I think many older GN's would say the same.