Jan Leeming said train your kids like dogs

butterandjam

AGAA4

Sit! Roll over! Beg! I don't think so Jan.

Our dog knows "Be quiet", " sit, stay" "come here" and is perfectly houstrained.

If only all children started school with that basic training, think what else they could be taught.

Sit and Stay might be a start on a restaurant!

Tuliptree

Just googled - he’s 63.

I bet he's got nice manners, perfectly toilet trained and sleeps all night.

My dog is the same.

I'm sure the parents would be the first to complain if their little darlings got scalded, for instance.

Yes, they would certainly think it was the fault of the waiting staff.

If they can't sit still at all, what will happen in school?

Of course children shouldn't be seen and not heard but not careering around and shouting at the tops of their voices when they're out in a restaurant.
There's a time and a place.

Exactly. And I understand - I have a GS who literally does not sit still. Even when he's watching something on TV, he is literally bouncing around the room from one chair to another. However, if you take him out for a meal, he does know he has to behave and not run around like a headless chicken - and if he were to do so, he'd know all about it and if necessary, be taken outside to avoid disturbing the other diners. It's all about having consideration for those around you. The world does not revolve solely around you and your little darling...

Allira

^I'm sure the parents would be the first to complain if their little darlings got scalded, for instance.^

Yes, they would certainly think it was the fault of the waiting staff.

If they can't sit still at all, what will happen in school?

Of course children shouldn't be seen and not heard but not careering around and shouting at the tops of their voices when they're out in a restaurant.
There's a time and a place.

I have never seen children careering around a restaurant here in the U.K.

I have seen Russian children behaving abominably in Ski Resort restaurants whilst their parents drink wine and/or champagne out of bottles with long straws.

I have never seen children careering around a restaurant here in the U.K.

Well, apparently they do according to reports!

:49Tuliptree

Sparklefizz

Twenty odd years ago there was a seaside cafe in Weston Super Mare that had a sign saying "Any children behaving badly will be put in chains and sold into slavery!"

It probably had to be removed!

I’ve seen (more recently)
‘Any badly behaved children will be given a Red Bull and a puppy to take home’

I saw one last year that said 'any misbehaving children will be sold to the circus

ViceVersa

Maybe you've just been lucky, theworriedwell, but from the comments on here, some of us have certainly seen badly behaved children in eating places. It's not being prejudiced not to want children running about when waiting staff are carrying hot food and drinks, is it? I'm sure the parents would be the first to complain if their little darlings got scalded, for instance.

Maybe read the post I was replying to, poster says they are sighing if a family walk in. Surely that is prejudice as the children are just arriving and presumably havent don't anything.

I can see JL pov , I’ve been in nice restaurants where small children have been running around the room , getting in the way of the wait staff . Whilst the parents say “please sit down darling “ and the little darling totally ignores them .
My son worked in our village pub during uni holidays and said weekend lunchtimes were a nightmare , having to dodge small children whilst carrying plates of hot food and trays of drinks .
My two were taken to restaurants at a young age but took , books, games and colouring stuff and had to sit whilst we ate. If they started misbehaving, they were taken outside to calm down . They still remember going to a Chinese restaurant and learning how to use chopsticks.

I think the statistics are amazing. Seems like everyone on here has beautifully behaved children but encounter badly behaved children frequently.

theworriedwell

ViceVersa

Maybe you've just been lucky, theworriedwell, but from the comments on here, some of us have certainly seen badly behaved children in eating places. It's not being prejudiced not to want children running about when waiting staff are carrying hot food and drinks, is it? I'm sure the parents would be the first to complain if their little darlings got scalded, for instance.

Maybe read the post I was replying to, poster says they are sighing if a family walk in. Surely that is prejudice as the children are just arriving and presumably havent don't anything.

If they have had bad experiences in the past, you can hardly blame them.

theworriedwell

I think the statistics are amazing. Seems like everyone on here has beautifully behaved children but encounter badly behaved children frequently.

Some of the beautifully behaved young members of my family have a weekend jobs waiting on in pubs/restaurants 😁
I must ask them if they encounter badly behaved children.

France is four times as big as the U.K. with the same population.
This means food outlets are not so busy as in the U.K.
as well the roads not being so busy.

My older grandsons are lifeguards at a local holiday park in uni holidays. They also do stints in the bar/restaurant/kitchen if they want more hours. They honestly don't moan about the children but they do moan about the adults. Two main issues come up, one is parents having a go at them if they've dived in to pull a child out who has gone out of their depth and is going under, the other is parents/grandparents buying alcohol for 16 and 17 year olds and then kicking off when bar staff go and confiscate said alcohol. They've had threats about both.

Eldest GS is ever helpful and recommends the local pubs that are less vigilant about licensing laws. I can't imagine how he knows.

ViceVersa I wasn't blaming them just pointing out it is prejudice. Look how many people have told us on here about their well behaved children/grandchildren, assuming they are going to be a nuisance as soon as you see them isn't really fair, at least give them a chance.

Tenko

I can see JL pov , I’ve been in nice restaurants where small children have been running around the room , getting in the way of the wait staff . Whilst the parents say “please sit down darling “ and the little darling totally ignores them .
My son worked in our village pub during uni holidays and said weekend lunchtimes were a nightmare , having to dodge small children whilst carrying plates of hot food and trays of drinks .
My two were taken to restaurants at a young age but took , books, games and colouring stuff and had to sit whilst we ate. If they started misbehaving, they were taken outside to calm down . They still remember going to a Chinese restaurant and learning how to use chopsticks.

Presumably it wasn't like that where JL went or the staff would have been more sympathetic to her point of view.

ViceVersa

theworriedwell

ViceVersa

Maybe you've just been lucky, theworriedwell, but from the comments on here, some of us have certainly seen badly behaved children in eating places. It's not being prejudiced not to want children running about when waiting staff are carrying hot food and drinks, is it? I'm sure the parents would be the first to complain if their little darlings got scalded, for instance.

Maybe read the post I was replying to, poster says they are sighing if a family walk in. Surely that is prejudice as the children are just arriving and presumably havent don't anything.

If they have had bad experiences in the past, you can hardly blame them.

Does that acceptance stand for any prejudice based on previous bad experiences? I thought it was oft said not to judge entire demographics on a few examples, but maybe children are exempt from that guidance?

Rosie51

ViceVersa

theworriedwell

ViceVersa

Maybe you've just been lucky, theworriedwell, but from the comments on here, some of us have certainly seen badly behaved children in eating places. It's not being prejudiced not to want children running about when waiting staff are carrying hot food and drinks, is it? I'm sure the parents would be the first to complain if their little darlings got scalded, for instance.

Maybe read the post I was replying to, poster says they are sighing if a family walk in. Surely that is prejudice as the children are just arriving and presumably havent don't anything.

If they have had bad experiences in the past, you can hardly blame them.

Does that acceptance stand for any prejudice based on previous bad experiences? I thought it was oft said not to judge entire demographics on a few examples, but maybe children are exempt from that guidance?

That's not what I'm saying and I think you know that. I'm just saying that if a person has had previous bad experiences with children behaving badly in an eating place and sees more children coming in, it's only natural for them to think 'oh here we go again'. I didn't say that's how I felt. But join the pile on...

Allira

^I have never seen children careering around a restaurant here in the U.K.^

Well, apparently they do according to reports!

I certainly have. Including, running hazards as waiters carry hot food; swinging on chairs occupied by other customers ( me), banging on the piano, throwing food from the plate, round the table, throwing sugar cubes round the room, shouting and whining.

This is in public spaces; imagine what they must be like at home.

I've never seen children careering round. I've heard little ones crying or a two year old having a tantrum but that isn't exactly awful and a parent normally removes them or puts something on their smart phone to distract them.

The thing I hate most is if you have someone kicking the back of your seat in a theatre but again I find it's more adults than children and I remember I was a child, I've had children, Ive got grandchildren and I assume parents are doing their best.

I might be lucky as DH has very white hair and a big white beard and little ones tend to think they've spotted Santa in plain clothes and interact very nicely with him. They never seem to register that his skin is somewhat darker than your average depiction of Santa.

She hasn't stopped grumbling ever since, on Twitter. She's had a go at mothers wheeling buggies while on their phones, at parents on public transport - she's on a Grumble Roll!

I read her article about going out for a meal too felt a lot of sympathy, I can never understand how parents can ignore their childrens' bad behaviour.
If we go somewhere and have this problem we always ask to be moved to a quiet table or another room and in most cases the staff will do this, or sometimes they will move the noisy family instead - which often does not go down well!
I have had occasions when other people's children ended up underneath our table or tripping up the waiting staff, and restaurant management usually do take action on this.
We take our own grandchildren out regularly but they know not to run around or make a noise. My daughter always takes things for them to do if they get bored.

Paperbackwriter

She hasn't stopped grumbling ever since, on Twitter. She's had a go at mothers wheeling buggies while on their phones, at parents on public transport - she's on a Grumble Roll!

Oh goody goody!

Have a good rant, Jan!! 😁

I think this ex newsreader, (and she wasn’t a very good one,) just craves publicity. Who called the press in the first place, do we know? Silly woman.

I have not seen the specific comment by Jan Leeming, but it is something that tends to be quite british in style. Having lived abroad and taken a child from the age of 2 to Syria , and other countries, I found that the two way level of acceptance far better than in Britian. While he was young, if we went to a restaurant I would choose a table which I could sort of block him in, so that he needed to pass me to get to other tables. But that was the only thing I needed to do. I always carried small notebooks , little games etc ., to keep him occupied if he had finished his food and needed to stay there. So that was my side of the "bargain"

On the other hand, I was able to get firstly , when he was very little, a plate so that I could give hims something from my choice. Once he was a little older he was offered a half portion of anything that was on the menu, which did NOT include chicken nuggets or fish fingers. He was treated politely and was part of the party, not someone fed the same boring - and not very healthy - food and expected to sit for a long time while the adults sat and drank or whatever.

On the continent I found cafes and restaurants expected to have the whole family and were relaxed about it. There were many times that the owners or the staff offered to take him and play with him, whilst we had coffee. The atmosphere was welcoming and relaxed, no feeling that I had to apologise for even having my child with me, however well behaved he was.
That atmosphere meant that he grew up understanding the way to behave , and he learnt many things about all sorts of food and drink.

How much you paid for the food you ate did not dictate who was able to be there. There have been many loud and rowdy people at tables close to ours, whose manners were far worse than at our table I can assure you. My son now has a son of his own who is taken to any restaurant or cafe , they choose. Feeling that this is normal and natural is part of growing up and learning how to be in public. But I do accept it can be very difficult for owners and staff to work out how to deal with badly behaved customers.

I accept that in several places I know, there are certain families who staff are told to tell them that they are full and have no vacancies , and it is understandable when those particular people not only caused problems but lost them other clients too. You cant blame them as there seems little other options open to owners .

So whilst I can understand an individual getting upset or annoyed by what they have planned to be a special occasion, not turning out to be what they wanted; they do need to remember that they did not book the complete restaurant for themselves , and whilst they could expect reasonable behaviour from other people, if you want something to be just as you want it, then you need to plan for this special occasion to be in your control, so having someone come in and cook for you, or make less assumptions as to how other people will act. I do think that these days people seem to think that they are entitled to do just what they want, without regard to others, and are more selfish than in the past.

Personally I was brought up to the old adage of do as you would be done by, not grab what you can and go hang to the rest . But I do put part of that down to the Thatcher reign where she taught people to put self first, but that is just my own thoughts.