Coronavirus - are older people being treated as expendable?

I think the NHS may cope because apparently A & E departments are almost empty at the moment. This seems to imply that many people who would normally use them really don't need to.

Our nearest large hospital has prepared 120 beds so far and none of them are in use yet. They say there will be enough ventilators.

My issue is that we won't know how many people have the virus now that the only testing to be done will be on people in hospital. Not everyone can use 111 online and BJ said not to call them, that worries me for some lonely people without help.

Well, putting Coronavirus aside, if the choice was to either treat a sick baby who needs to be in Intensive Care, or an 89 year old in Intensive Care, which would you choose? Would you give a new heart valve to a 96 year old when cots are unavailable in NICU for unwell babies? I know which group of patients I'd prioritise. I think we do have to be sensible and give priority to those who haven't had chance to live their life but it must be a horrible decision for medical personnel to have to take. I just hope the elderly patients are at least helped to be comfortable, it must be very scary to be so ill you know you're staring death in the face and can't even hug your loved ones for fear of cross-infection. Awful for families too but being realistic we don't all get the chance to physically say goodbye at the very end, which is why it's so important to let people know you love them all the time, don't leave it till they've gone and it's too late. In our family it's a phrase we often say, we mean it too, each and every time and show it in how we help and support each other. Life has taught me you never know when you'll lose someone you love dearly, young or old. Sorry if I sound callous, I'm not, but I am realistic and I know NHS resources are limited so choices do have to be made. I think reaching 85 is a good long life and that thereafter life saving treatments should be reduced and palliative care given unless that's more expensive than the cost of the life saving treatment and possible continued care for potentially another 10 years, maybe longer. It can be very expensive to keep someone that old alive, it just seems wrong to me when there are children struggling to live with ongoing conditions, waiting for money to be made available for them to be treated.

I think the governments actions in not mentioning older people and just concentrating on school closings says it all. This government thinks older people are expendable.

The budget had no mention of a new social care plan, so if the virus decreases the number of people needing social care it will make it that much easier for the government to create a new plan when they finally get around to it.

There should be no priorities placed on ANY age group. Everyone play’s an important part in our society. Grandparents often help out with grandchildren during holidays, after school, and when they are sick. They have as much value as anyone else.

I really don't think we are being treated as expendable. All the restrictions we are asked to adhere to are surely to prevent the spread of the virus to the old and vulnerable. As most other groups will just get a mild illness and then develop natural immunity it is only to protect the weakest that the country needs to do all it can to stop the spread.

I feel that the Government generally have a cavalier attitude to this virus, I really don't feel that they are taking it seriously enough. I can't say they are less respectful to older people but generally don't have sufficient value for peoples welfare. There have been too many flights entering the country with no checks, no temperature checks and no isolation. 17 flights alone came in from Milan last Sunday, which is a locked down area in Italy and they were left to go wherever they wanted!

These threads don't take long to dig the depths of prejudice and personal political stance, do they? Such a shame because it seemed to start really well.

Another couple of days of self-imposed social distancing from GN coming up I feel. It just becomes so depressing to read when this happens.

The knock on effect on childcare and therefore the economy would be massive if they start allowing us to die!

Let's face it folks, as the virus inevitably spreads there is bound to be increasing competition in the NHS for scarce resources. Sadly for us oldies , the fact is that a younger person with a longer life expectancy and a better potential outcome will take priority over us, and quite rightly so under the circumstances. So let's not kid ourselves. These are scary times, and we all need to take whatever precautions are possible.

I'm 84 and don't expect the government to come running at my beck and call. UNLESS WE ARE ILL we must try and watch out for ourselves and be sensible. And by the way everyone has the choice of whether to go to large gatherings or not.Take all the precautions you can and be positive.
Stay at home if you wish, speak to other people but don't touch them, if you need a chat telephone someone. Good luck everyone, keep well.

I was watching a news item where they were reporting from a hospital a couple of weeks ago and they said there were only 50 ventilators, which I admit really shocked me. Now I’m quite willing to admit I’ve made a mistake as, at the time, I thought that sounded ridiculous. However, if it wasn’t ventilators it may have been some kind of special ICU bed, which cost thousands each. Whichever it was, the figures were very low. I hope I misheard, I really do.

If the Government had spent taxpayers money on more ventilators and other emergency treatments instead of sending money abroad we would be in a stronger position now to help those who will be affected by this pandemic.

* maybe Boris is hoping HS2 can be used to transport all the bodies quicker to landfill sites …...cynical ? *

Not cynical. Just laughably daft.

I don't think that the 'elderly' are of little value, but I'm thinking like Gagajo and Framilode. I'm 72, and fairly fit,and to my knowledge, only suffering from high blood pressure. However, just as if only some of us could be saved in a disaster situation, I'd want it to be my DD's and DGC before me.

The Brexodus of medics and care workers won't be helping the NHS, and I don't believe those 40 hospitals will be ready in time. If we can all manage to get through/facilitate the 'delay' stage, and the peak is flattened, then there could be enough help for all, including the 'unproductive'. Very interesting to hear how it is going in other parts of the world. All tips on how to get through are welcome.

At 68 I’m happy - ish - to go first. In answer to some of the above I think the homeless, drug users and alcoholics are also in the ‘At risk’ category already.
Let’s stay positive and do all we can to stay healthy, but what will be will be.
Those poor people in China who were confined to a hotel - which then collapsed! My heart goes out to them and their relatives.

I don’t know where the 50 ventilators came from but that’s very wrong. I worked in operating theatres for over 40 years and in every anaesthetic room and theatre room itself there was a ventilator, so in my hospital alone there were over 60 ventilator.
During the bird flu crises routine operations were cancelled and theatres was turned into ‘pods’ and used as ITU extensions. So I’m sure that’s what will be happening now.

Its not a matter of sparing your own children's lives.
It'll be saving younger, more viable peoples lives, should it come to it. (The same as its ever been)

I am 71 and as yet I have not had a call from my children to check me out but actually I am fine just more aware when out in public.

I do think there is ageism in government decisions ...if a lot of pensioners (me included !) succumb to this or any other illness...yippee ! money saved ….no pensions to pay out......no expensive care required (as is also highlightes by the refusal to mention in the budget any increase in social care grants....) there has to be a financial reason behind this ...maybe Boris is hoping HS2 can be used to transport all the bodies quicker to landfill sites …...cynical ? well...think about it ! If you survive but self isolate that means no shopping ...no one to fetch it > die ! All very well to say order online but with entry secure systems in a lot of elderly housing ...presumably you would have to go down and collect it ! As usual, an un thought out knee jerk reaction by a rich and privileged government ! bah humbug

It occurred to me this morning that I may be worried because I am facing 2 unhappy events; being culled over treatment options whilst suffering Coronavirus, and suffering Coronavirus itself.

I have 3 autoimmune conditions.

Yes.
In one hit, they can solve the social care crisis, not pay so many pensions out, and, long term, ease pressure on the NHS for a few years.
Win win.

Please don’t feed this nonsense HQ

“Expendable” . Ridiculous

The area of Italy most affected has a higher level of medical care than our NHS.

There is no sense in closing schools - so many of the children eill be looked after by vulnerable grandparents.
I think Gagajo has it exactly right.

Oh course we're not being seen as expendable because when the schools shut down we'll suddenly go back to being "useful members of society" as opposed to "burdensome bed-blockers!"

Someone has to take up the slack with both parents HAVING to work f/t to just scrape enough for the mortgage money. I doubt they even think of the 'luxury' of self-isolating.

(Oddly, W.A.S.P.I. Women who are not deemed by the government worth engaging with never mind worthy of a State Pension, will suddenly become "the salt of the earth" and "worth their weight in gold." The usual juggling act, ladies.)