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Coronavirus

Billions of pounds

(133 Posts)
tanith Wed 08-Apr-20 18:52:28

I know our Government borrow money but listening to Rishi Sunak today it’s clear they are going to be supporting the country with Billions of pounds for a long time.

I feel very naive/stupid wondering where it’s all going to come from?
Can anyone enlighten me as to where all this money will be found/borrowed from?

JacquiG Thu 09-Apr-20 15:07:43

Deed5y The Labour Party didn't spend all the money, the banks crashed and had to be bailed out with our, tax payers', money. Even the Labour Party couldn't cause a global crash.

Gordon Brown found a way to stabilise the system. He's getting a group of G20 economies experts to sort this problem out.

Might we consider it an opportunity? New ways of working? Better ways of working. Less use of transport. And that is just the start.

Time to go green before everything is lost.

tanith Thu 09-Apr-20 15:22:23

Here here ??? JacquiG maybe we should all look at our own behaviour too, but I somehow doubt it will make much difference to government behaviour in the long term

Dinahmo Thu 09-Apr-20 15:44:59

Rosina The country has run a debt since the Bank of England was started in 1694 to raise money to finance wars at that time. The amount borrowed has fluctuated ever since.

The reason why people are going to have to work longer is because we live longer. When the state pension was introduced it was thought that people wouldn't live for more than a year to two after retiring. But the introduction of the Health Service and better treatment for everyone is partly responsible for longevity, as well as shorter working hours, improved safety standards etc etc.

Dinahmo Thu 09-Apr-20 15:58:39

JacquiG and those thieves with their boats moored at Monaco are asking for a government handout.

Moses Thu 09-Apr-20 16:05:17

Would it perhaps be helpful if everyone got given£5000 as they have done in other countries?

DotMH1901 Thu 09-Apr-20 16:28:52

They have said it is from the emergency fund - but they did say taxes would have to go up after this is over in order to replenish it. I am hoping they will cancel the HS2 - if anything good has come out of this lockdown it is the fact that many people can quite happily manage to work from home - even conferencing calls can be done. Yet another reason to cancel the HS2 - many people don't need to commute

Keffie12 Thu 09-Apr-20 16:40:16

This will answer most of your questions

www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/09/bank-of-england-to-finance-uk-government-covid-19-crisis-spending

MaizieD Thu 09-Apr-20 17:41:21

I'm afraid that the Guardian article is just perpetrating the idea which the tories really, really want you have. That this money has to be 'paid back' in some way. It hasn't. There has been over £300 bn of QE issued in the UK since the 2008 Global Financial Crisis. Most of it for the GFC but some to prop up the pound when it fell dramatically after the EU referendum result. None of it has been 'paid back' by the public. Nor did it cause inflation (apart from house prices because most of the QE money ended up in the hands of the wealthy who 'invested' some in property. Housing was already in short supply anyway. This made house price inflation worse).

Just watch the video: Please....

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/04/09/the-millennials-money-2/

sarahellenwhitney Thu 09-Apr-20 18:02:27

Nannan2
With you on that.

Lesley60 Thu 09-Apr-20 18:07:10

Maybe the queen could sell some of the Art or palaces that are supposed to be owned by us, that should see us right for a bit.

Sawsage2 Thu 09-Apr-20 18:08:40

I think we all have enough to think\worry about. Let the government get on with their job, that's what they're paid for after all.

Ngaio1 Thu 09-Apr-20 19:25:17

Well, if we stop foreign aid that will send billions back into the treasure chests.!!

MaizieD Thu 09-Apr-20 19:42:06

We really don't need to do anything so mean and small minded, Ngaiol.

The government can issue as much money as it wants to. It doesn't come out of anyone's pocket and we don't have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

May7 Thu 09-Apr-20 21:04:53

quizqueen
unless you prefer that ventilators are sent abroad instead of using them for any of your loved ones here who may catch coronavirus
Someone has just asked what you meant by this statement and I would like to know what you meant too?
Hetty suggests you meant charity should begin at home ?
Please clarify

Marjgran Thu 09-Apr-20 21:14:03

You know that ventilators aren’t the main answer? They only “save” about a third of those who have to be put on one, and even if you are saved you may be very very damaged. And please don’t think a country’s finances are like a home’s, they are completely different.

Pikachu Thu 09-Apr-20 21:35:04

Ngaiol that’s petty.

Hawera1 Thu 09-Apr-20 21:43:59

I'm not sure where our New Zealand government got their extra money. We are in lockdown with non essential businesses all shut down. There will be businesses that do not survive this however while there will.be many unemployed and we ourselves will find ourselves with no.income until tourism starts again our country is getting on top of the virus and so far we have only had one death.

Eloethan Thu 09-Apr-20 23:59:31

My understanding is that money, in terms of coinage, was introduced because societies became more complex and the system of bartering was too clumsy and eventually totally impractical.

Now, rather than just being just a method of exchange, money has a value in itself - so people buy and sell currencies and gamble on certain financial events taking place or not taking place.

I think the way the financial system works is a mystery to most people - it's certainly a mystery to me - but even economists have very different ideas as to how the system should work or even how it does work.

In my view the problem is that so much energy is spent in producing products and services that, until they were marketed, we didn't think we needed. You only have to watch Dragon's Den to see that the majority of products and services presented by those seeking investment money are fairly pointless and/or merely "tweaking" in a fairly superficial way something that exists already.

In my opinion, we need a system which satisfies everybody's basic needs - enough food to stay healthy, clean water, somewhere to live, warmth, health and education.

Money is an artificial construct but the financial structures that have built up around it appears not to work for the majority of people in the world or for the natural environment on which all people ultimately depend. Instead, the majority of people work to maintain the construct without ever questioning if this is the best way to do things.

There are great skills in this country (and other countries) and people who are willing to work hard. We've seen this during the crisis - racing car engineers immediately turning their skills to making medical equipment, fashion designers switching their fashion lines to producing protective clothing for health workers, etc, etc. I think people are basically altruistic and want to work for the good of society - just look at the number of people who have volunteered during this crisis - not for money but because they want to do something useful. But our finance system distorts that generosity of spirit and drive and turns it into a dog eat dog competition.

It has already been shown that the notion of debt is also an artificial construct. We were told we could not possibly give money to the NHS because the money was just not there. Now - on top of the huge amounts of money offered to businesses and employees during this crisis - the government has stated it will write off the entire debt that has built up over the last few years. At the press of a button, it is wiped out. It is all about who decides what the priorities are and who benefits from setting those priorities.

Davidhs Fri 10-Apr-20 08:16:43

We are borrowing against the value of “UK PLC” the total value of assets in the country, the land, the buildings, the infrastructure, The Total value is in excess of £10 Trillion Pounds at today’s value, on the debit side we have borrowings around £1 Trillion, so as nation we own 90% of everything. There are many countries having serious difficulties, of those Argentina and Venezuela the economy and currency has collapsed.

Government support in the current crisis has been vaunted at £750 Billion, however a large part of that is loans which will have to be repaid, nevertheless the cost will be high. A bigger risk is business not being able to pay their debts, we are seeing banks being very cautious about increasing lending. They are very worried about property value collapsing, commercial property has been weak for years and the government is only guaranteeing loans for one year. Residential Property is also under pressure many lenders are asking for 40% equity, they fear the housing market will crash

The current problem is nobody has any cash, businesses have no money coming in so cannot pay out because they can’t borrow. Travel companies cannot pay refunds they don’t have the cash, tenants cannot pay the rent they dont have cash either. So those furloughed are OK but if they cannot get back to work quickly, they might not have businesses to return to.

Davidhs Fri 10-Apr-20 08:22:49

Correction National debt is around 2 Trillion we own 80% of the assets

nannafizz Fri 10-Apr-20 10:24:50

Perhaps the government should give everyone £5000 as they have in there countries?

Missedout Fri 10-Apr-20 14:05:25

I have been stimulated by some of the posts on this thread, especially those which explain how modern 'fiat' economies work and really want to thank those who have an understanding of them for their persistence in trying to explain them to a largely resistant and incredulous audience. MaisieD has posted a link - it is worth watching.

As the old saying goes, you (the government in this case) can fool some of the people all of the time and all the people some of the time but....

May7 Fri 10-Apr-20 14:12:06

Yes it enlightened me too maisieD Bit ashamed to say I didnt actually know this. But I do now thanks

MaizieD Fri 10-Apr-20 14:33:27

Nothing at all to be ashamed of, May7. Very few people do know it.

Who is really interested in the development of 'money', its functions, its history, its source? Just as long as we have got enough to live on with comfort most of us don't even think about it. Not a criticism, just a fact.

I just saw information on a blog 2 or 3 years ago and followed it up because I thought it was interesting. It completely turns upside down any vague ideas one might have about how a national economy works, especially when incorrect (but useful to the government) information has been pushed for decades and accepted as the 'truth'.

For anyone who might be interested in looking further, there's a list of good sources on this blog page:

www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2020/04/08/modern-monetary-theory-resources/

I think it should be made clear that this account of how national economies 'work' is completely apolitical. The fact that its proponents seem to be more left-wing than right wing is probably due to the fact that MMT blows a gaping hole in right-wing ambitions to privatise every public service that they possibly can, on the grounds that 'we can't afford it'. Well, we clearly can afford it, the 'right' is being forced by current circumstances to create more money to keep the economy ticking over.

As noted in the OP, they'll try to claim that it needs to be 'repaid'. The question to ask is '*Who is it to be repaid to*?

red1 Fri 10-Apr-20 15:05:33

well said