NHS staff can refuse to treat C19 patients if they do not have the correct PPE

The RCN are quite right. We simply can't expect people to risk their lives just by doing their job. We don't want them to pass on the infection to others, either.

What else can they do? There’s no point in sacrificing themselves when so many other people will need their skills later on.

Apparently 2 porters have died, seems that everyone in frequent contact needs PPE.

As with any worker, they may refuse to treat patients if it's not safe to do so, but can they in fact leave a sick person to suffer without their care and treatment. It's a really difficult, I would say impossible, thing to do. So our NHS and care workers are at much greater risk than they should be.

I’m sure that it will be a last resort for all frontline staff but they’re quite right - why should they be used as cannon fodder? I support any healthcare worker who refuses to work without the correct PPE 100%.

Me too SC. It's disgusting that that shower that ponce about on national TV have put medical staff in that position.

Imagine THAT on national TV (being watched internationally), that UK medics are unable to treat sick patients because they don't have the equipment. In a first world country.

I can’t imagine anyone walking away and leaving a patient but they could well refuse to start their shift in the first place.

The frontline staff have their own health, and that of their families to think of; the ripple effect.

In fact not being supplied with the correct PPE to do a job is breaking the law. All this problem is due to the government not planning ahead for such a crisis. If they hadn't cut funding to the NHS we would to be in this situation.

Their Union has sent a strong message of support. I’d be scared to do front line jobs without adequate protection.

I'd certainly think twice as hospitals are rife with bugs at the best of times but as things are the atmosphere in which the staff are working in the air will be thick with the virus. It's shocking to say the least. I'd want a space suit !

I do not know about UK laws, but in my area you have a legal obligation to refuse unsafe work. The employer is legally required to ensure that the situation is rectified.

Well, it should be the same here, according to legislation.

It's not quite that straightforward but there has always been a protocol where if giving care becomes unsafe for whatever reason, there is a process to follow to escalate concern. The RCMs position statement just reiterates that. Any individual worker has a responsibility to protect themselves and the patients they care for. The general public seems to be getting quite hysterical about the whole situation with a lot of ill-judged comments. It wouldn't hurt to just pause and consider what HAS been achieved: plenty of capacity for ICU beds and no patients seen lying on floors in corridors. Until we are through the other side of this, we will have no idea how well the strategies are working. Its all too easy for those with the benefit of hindsight and no accountability whatsoever, to sit on their comfortable sofas and spout criticism

How ironic.

Grannylaine weren't we all aghast at Italy's death roll just two weeks ago? Ours is higher now and its being glossed over .Its shocking and the politicians need to either get the equipment needed or get out an dlet someone do the job who can get it.There were ventilatore ready and available but Boris had to give his mate the contract!!! The company had neer made them before ...HOW is that acceptable ? Sme with PPE they say its available then the staff say they cant get it ..I know who I believe and its not Hancock and Pritel

So many of the problems occurring are logistical- But many other problems are ethical and involve safety and risk- And sadly, some involve prejudice -

My nephew is an EMT on the east coast just outside of NYC- Even with enough PPE, 2 of his members died- One 24 with underlying conditions, the other 33 physically fit-

My niece is a 911 dispatcher just outside of DC- Her Aunt, in the funeral industry, contracted the virus-

This isn't a war- These are citizens, not in the military- And yet ..

Paddyanne Our death toll is just as shocking as Italy's and I'm sure no one is glossing over either. Ventilator capacity so far seems to be adequate. Granted, PPE has been a logistical nightmare world wide and specification has been clarified and upgraded in this country. Reports of supply seem okay in some areas and definitely not in others which raises the question of blocks in local procurement. I don't think it's a question of believing one perspective over another. In times of crisis all we can ask of anyone, in any walk of life, is that they do the absolute best they can.

Surely you’re not suggesting that the many staff across the NHS and the BMA and the RCN aren’t to be believed.

No, I didn't suggest that.
I was responding to Paddyanne who spoke of what she believes.

Where's your source that PPE supply is OK?

It could be that ventilator supply seems adequate because the most seriously ill aren't being offered ventilators, but left to take their chances on an ordinary ward or at home/in a care home.

Look at the NHS Covid-19 treatment chart I posted on another thread. If you're over 70, have an existing condition, are unfit and are male, you're unlikely ever to make it to a ventilator.

Nurses, doctors and all vulnerable NHS staff should not be asked to work with inadequate protection. End of.

At the start of the pandemic Germany had almost five times as many ventilators per capita as the UK. Causation is not the same as correlation, but Germany's lower death rate needs to be investigated - as does Ireland's. Ireland and the UK had almost the same number of ventilators per capita, but has a significantly lower death rate.

I'm not sure whether Hancock just says what he's told to say or whether he makes things up on the spot when faced with awkward questions. I was in the same room as him at a hustings before the last election. He was even worse than he appears on TV. He reminded me of a naughty teenager who lied because he's been caught out doing something wrong and then dug himself in even deeper when his lies were challenged. I have a smidgeon of sympathy for him because I think he's been set up as a fall guy.

Of course they shouldn't Pikachu - and it doesn't matter where they are in the country.