Tory election donors call on Boris Johnson to end 'harmful' lockdown

They say they have no new cases in NZ. BECAUSE of lockdown. A friend has messaged me today.

FlyingSolo I'm the same as you. It really is not easy, but if everybody (and I mean everybody) stayed indoors, the virus would have new hosts and really would disappear. As it is, that won't happen, so it will linger for years, which probably does mean that those at greatest risk of complications will have to self-isolate for many months or years to come.

Lifting lockdown now would lead to chaos with thousands of new cases and deaths and a total lack of control. The NHS really would not be able to cope with new cases, never mind cancer and heart patients.

I'm reasonably happy to trade a few months now for (hopefully) another 20 years of life.

Anybody fancy a nice Domestos and Tonic to start their day with a zing?

All those newly created ICU beds don't come with built-in staff. They need at least four nurses a day each (probably six) to work shifts looking after the patients occupying them.

Taking the 1918 flu pandemic as a pattern, free association of the public is likely to cause a second wave of 10 times the number of infections as the first wave. That would take ten times the nursing staff. How would that impact on staffing for patients with other conditions? Which would you prioritise, CoVid patients who can't breathe alone or the rest? How about the nursing staff? They'd be run ragged - and they are just as likely to get it as anyone else or more so, many will be off sick. Hospitals without staff are just dormitories for sick people.

I will repeat what I just said - The virus has not gone away, it will be around for people to catch when they meet up again, and there are more people who have not yet had it than those who have. A second wave will be far worse than the first."

The reason that " . . people with other conditions . . become emergencies or critical before diagnosis or treatment" just now is because they are not visiting surgeries or even phoning the surgery or other organisations for advice. This is their perception but in fact, IF they reported their symptoms, they would be listened to. We keep being told NOT to put off seeking treatment for other problems.

How about publicising even more widely and loudly the symptoms which COULD lead to serious illness AND WILL BE TREATED even though the emphasis is on the virus - cancers, heart disease etc - so that no-one thinks "It isn't that bad, I don't want to add to the burden of the NHS at this time." How about a circular to the public from the government or from GP practices, outlining some of the things that SHOULD be reported and will not be dismissed as minor?

uk.yahoo.com/news/boris-johnson-statement-coronavirus-lockdown-082616546.html

Didn't mean to paste that with no message!

Thankfully, at this point at least, BJ agrees we are not ready to come out of lockdown.

I will financially suffer for this. My employer will cease paying me when I don't return to my job 11th May (overseas). BUT my health is more important.

Its all about money with these people, no, no, we shouldn't ease lockdown until the figures for deaths are right down and even then with caution. I am no fan of Boris but I believe with his near miss death he will not ease the lockdown.

I speak to my relatives in Sweden. Their approach to the virus has been a more moderate one. Schools are open, cafés and restaurants as well. Groups of up to 50 people can gather. This all sounds very liberal but most people observe a kind of lockdown anyway. Certainly this is true of the older generation. For instance the older members of my Swedish family no longer go shopping but rely on family/neighbours to help them.

The following by the Swedish epidemiologist Johan Giesecke explains the Swedish thinking.
Time will tell if he is right.

unherd.com/thepost/coming-up-epidemiologist-prof-johan-giesecke-shares-lessons-from-sweden/

I've read all the posts and opinions and whilst I don't believe the money men want to lift lockdown for the workers benefits perhaps it's time to at least be thinking about how we can start to get people back to work.

For what it's worth here's my view. We went into lockdown in order to prevent the rapid spread of corona virus. It didn't mean that we wouldn't get it. In fact most of us probably will or have already had it. We simply needed to spread out so that we didn't all become ill at the same time and overwhelm the NHS. Whilst the NHS is still struggling and it's beyond disgraceful that PPE etc is still not available, we need to ask the people on the ground what they think. The doctors and other hospital staff who are working in the system not someone on a committee. They're the ones who know what's really happening inside the hospitals and they need to be allowed to be honest with no risk of repercussions.

If they say that they can start to deal with other regular patients then it's time to start opening the clinics again especially for those who have serious conditions. I know that my neighbour is worried about her out patients (neurology).

Then we need to start looking at who needs to go back to work. I'm assuming that some people have actually found that they don't need to be in the office every day to do their jobs. This has certainly happened with two of my neighbours. So perhaps we should look at a gradual return to work with those who can, working from home all or most of the time. Those who need to return to factories, shops etc. could return but try to keep social distancing as much as possible and wear face masks when this is not possible

I'm not sure if the children should return to school. The teacher in me wants them back into a routine and learning because the longer they're off the more a lot of them will forget but the other part of me doesn't want to inflict these little walking germ factories on school staff.

Lockdown should finish but masks should be warn on public transport and places where you can't reasonably be expected to keep 2m distance.

Of course this is just my musings and totally relies on what real doctors and hospital staff say.

Notanan2 ; throughout this thread I have seen your posts referencing how all Face to Face Mental Health and Addiction Therapies completely came to a halt and how serious you say this is. You point out it can give a rise to crime and stabbings.

I can give true facts that those services were not totally halted.
My daughter works two days a week in the Mental Health ward with her addiction clients and the rest of week in the main office where her clients can come in for appointments
Yes this has stopped..

You possibly think these services are closed but all of my daughters team are busier than ever working from home and have special lap tops and phones and all clients are accounted for and all have their one to one appointments and are well catered for. My daughter even works her Saturday contacting clients and doing her casework. There are two staff meetings a week (all done on-line with her bosses) and everything is strictly business.
I understand this to be the norm with several of the mental health and addiction agencies.

So your statement that people have no access to rehabilitation services is not strictly true.

So your statement that people have no access to rehabilitation services is not strictly true.
Cardiac, stroke, pulmonary etc rehab HAS stopped (which were the rehabs I referred to)

And being called from someone working from home is no substitute for the mental health therapies that have stopped. Being "accounted for" isnt exactly therapy is it? And the police have said that theyre mopping up the consequences

PTSD therapies have been cancelled. Indefinitely.

How about publicising even more widely and loudly the symptoms which COULD lead to serious illness AND WILL BE TREATED even though the emphasis is on the virus

Well according to my GP his referrals are being bounced back and there arent even waiting lists for him to put his patients on.

Lockdown was never intended to eradicate CV19. That was never going to happen
It has already passed its intended purpose and is now doing more harm than good

People have totally unrealistic expectations of what we should wait for before ending lockdown.

As far as its intended purposes, we're already there

As far as some peoples expectations of where they want it to be before Lockdown ends: YEARS away!

We cannot be locked down for years.

And guess what, if lockdown ended tomorrow, those who dont want it to end could still chose to stay in!

All you lot wanting us locked down indefinitely: nobody will force you to go to gyms or cafes or on visits. You can go straight to and from work and otherwise stay home. You can ring uo and cancel your routine medical screenings if you like while the rest of us attend them. You can postpone your dental and medical treatments etc. Going out and about isnt compulsary as soon as lockdown ends.

You go ahead and stay in!

I want my medical treatments rebooked ASAP.

The 2008 recession caused hundreds of thousands of deaths.

People need to get back to work.

The furloughed are worried that if they dont go back soon they will have no jobs to go back to as their companies are close to folding

Others dont qualify for furlough etc and are struggling to put food on the table

If you dont want to go back to work you could always hand in your notice and stay home forever. You'll be no worse off than the many locked down without furlough.

I'm in that position Notanan2. No job from mid May. But I'll still take lockdown over the alternative.

We're going to have another spike in deaths if we come out of LD.

I'm pleased to see that Boris, on his return, has stamped on the hard-liners' demands for an early end to the lock-down. He knows better than most the risks that this would pose. The Tory party donors seem to think that their money entitles them to put the rest of the population in danger while they hang out in their tax havens.

You could chose to stay in that position if lockdown ended.

Other people want to chose to put food on the table and have their medical and dental treatments.

I think/hope that BJ is doing what he did with start of lockdown re end of lockdown:

Planning to do it but not announcing if until he has the details worked out

Waiting for the apologies from those who KNEW that Boris would lift the lockdown as soon as he returned. Won’t hold my breath though!

Notanan2 : You sound an aggressive and rude person! I am predominantly referring to two of your posts in regard of Mental Health and addictions services that you have posted about. In regard of the Addicton services perhaps you could make your post more transparent and clear. Re-read your post you posted about Addictions, and without patronizing you are you aware that by addictions it means alcohol and drugs?
I stated to you what my daughters career is and told you how those services are being managed at the moment for those in alcohol and drug addiction.
Are you actually a person that is in need of those services? and unless you walk in the shoes of the hard working people that are doing their best to care for them I suggest you stop reading all the hyped up tabloids that love to print so much manic news and people like yourself believe it.

I do have every sympathy for those that need heart treatments and care for pulmonary disease. M y neighbours wife needs a hear operation a.s.a.p. and they do not know when she will get it and it is urgent. My hospital treatment has also been cancelled and there is nothing I can do about it and will have to wait like everyone else. Getting angry and shouting the odds is not going to help.

So you want an apology from Spectator magazine and other political correspondants? Are they aware of your demands?

@Sussexborn (any relation by the way? ?)

I am amazed that Boris didnt lift the lockdown. I fully expected him to nod towards it. Well done Boris say I - and that's almost choked me. Maybe having experienced C19 himself he now understands?
That's not an apology btw and please dont hold your breath it's really not good for you

i agree . i want my church back ,i am lost without it ,and i want my granchildren up for lunch again. yes i would make sure they washed hands before entering my flat. lots of my neighbours have their granchildren up in their homes and playing in communal gardens.....am on my own 24/7 and its making me depressed ,while i agree with social distancing .the warmer weather will kill the virus off......its hard for children to be locked in their home ,that my daughter takes them to the park now for a run a round,.

Addiction services do not work as a stand alone. They are inseparable from social care and PTSD type therapies and wider infastructures which are NOT currently business as usual.

Giving people their methadone/chlordiazepoxide and scoring whether they have become high risk or not for admission is firefighting, NOT "treatment" and the long term death toll not just from the addicts but from their children etc too due to lockdown will be huge