Would you use the App?

Apparently, the app that the rest of Europe is using collects decentralised data, but the one we would get is linked to our postcodes.

I'm beginning to change my mind, actually. Why can't we have one that can be decentralised, and that allows us to delete the data when this is over? Given Cummings' hand in all this, that makes me very uncomfortable.

I think we're on the same wavelength Doodledog. Anything Cummings is involved with makes me feel uncomfortable.

He first entered my consciousness when he was Michael Gove's SpAd at the Department for Education. Although he didn't get the same kind of publicity then, he was the person behind Gove's appalling changes to the education system.

Borrowing Anne Widdecombe's words, there's "something of the night" about him.

NfkDumpling My understanding is that Germany is moving towards a Bluetooth system, but the data wouldn't be centralised. Germany and Italy will, of course, still be subject to EU data protection laws.

I need to read up more about this. I do know that there are people who know a lot more than I do who are deeply concerned about the proposed UK system.

Something else which occurred to me is if the system only works when phones are fully switched on, could it mean that some contacts are missed? Would that then give people a false sense of security and actually contribute to the spread?

Blinko I can see the value for tech savvy people who want to go to work and perhaps travel on public transport.

However, imagine what would happen if, for example, crowded commuter trains returned to normal. If one infected person stepped on a train, I wouldn't be surprised if a dozen or so people received an alert. Those people would then have to self-isolate, also affecting household members. Some people wouldn't follow the advice anyway, unless there were local enforcement. Life wouldn't be normal at all. The only answer is for life not to return to normal for some time yet.

There could possibly be some phased lifting of restrictions, but this needs to be managed and monitored closely with frequent testing - way beyond the UK's current capability.

No I'll give it a wide berth. Cummings? Security of data etc.

I would in the hope that it could warn me of any contacts with the virus.
I'm not sure how it works and I would think realistically there will be hic ups. But it's worth giving it a go if it helps people to return to some sort of normality.
People do worry about privacy and I can understand that to some degree but I would have thought it is totally impossible to be anonymous these days.
We provide so much information in the life we lead to so many sources. Our names and details much be on hundreds of databases.
Why would the government want to track the over 70s, or anyone else for that matter. I have no idea where that came from, complete nonsense. Total scare mongering.
We live in the UK if you don't want the app don't download it, you have a choice.

I have decided that I would. It is only bluetooth and not a tracking app and I have nothing to hide, keeping to the rules

Yeah, I would, they say it can be of a great help.

I wouldn't use it at the moment because as ignorant of IT as I am, there are still too many unanswered questions being raised by those more knowledgeable than me.

I need more confidence in security of data. I can imagine despite the assurances being given, data acquired may be a very profitable commodity in the future.

This whole thing sounds as if it is going to fail, so many of us unsure and unwilling, no follow up. I did hear a report that the group which represents Environmental Health Officers (EHO) had offered their expertise in contact tracking. They are the experts in this area ( food poisoning incidents etc) and are not working at the moment. As far as I am aware, their offer has not been taken up. There are in excess of 5000 experts available.

No is the answer. First I haven't got a smart phone and don't intend to get one and second I have no intention in anyone being able to track me.

Unless somebody can come up with a very good reason why I should, I won't download it. The more I've thought about it, the more I'm aware that I'm irrelevant to it. No app will stop me from being infected, which is my main concern, so I shall be concentrating on making sure I don't catch anything by staying at home. I object to the moral blackmailers telling me I'm not doing my "civic duty", when I'm doing my civic duty by making sure I don't catch anything and don't infect anybody else, rather than flouting the rules, which so many are.

Barmeyoldbat We're not heading for a Stasi-run state (yet), but it's highly probable that details about you would become part of a huge dataset, which would be highly valuable. Facebook, for example, has made billions from joining the dots on seemingly random data and selling it to those who can use it.

I would, people forget that there is already a lot of information about them out there already via online shopping,banking Alexa etc. If it helps with bringing our lives back to a more normal state I'm all for it

No, I haven't forgotten that grannysyb and it's not the privacy issue which bothers me. I remain to be convinced that it will bring about normality and it certainly won't stop people from becoming infected. Thank goodness we do all have a choice.

I am wary of medical data in particular, being stored and subsequently mis-used for other purposes in the future, ie pharma and insurance companies would love to get their hands on it.

Call me paranoid but there will need to be a lot of safeguards in place before I will use any app.

Yes, I would want to know if I had been in close contact with somebody that had the virus,it may stop me infecting loved ones.

A yes from me. I have chosen not to use Facebook, this is different. On a personal level I’d like to know if I’ve been close to someone positive for covid, more widely I believe it has the potential to help manage the spread of the virus as part of a wider approach.

Do you have iOS or Android phones?

I wouldn’t mind betting that the take up rate for this will be quite low.

Initially it’s tempting to be enthusiastic, feeling we are helping in a small way to defeat this virus, but I do wonder if a lot of people will change their minds when they have had a chance to think about the implications, some of which have been highlighted on here.

You could be right JenniferEccles, although I think quite a lot of people will want to do the "right thing" because there's pressure to do one's "civic duty".

Personally, I'm not too bothered that the government is going to spy on me, although the technology would be in place for it to do so, if it wanted.

I'm more concerned that it won't actually stop infection and people will be lulled into a sense of false security. As lockdown eases, people might think that the app will help them and they might become too relaxed about social distancing. People will still be infected (with all the horrible consequences for some people) and some of the contacts will still be infected too. I'm struggling to believe that people will take a warning text seriously, so they might ignore it - or it could go overboard and warn people who aren't in any danger, who could then self-isolate for no reason.

I've also been reading about whether the app will actually work. Apparently, most modern smart phones, especially Apples, turn themselves into background mode to save battery power after a while. Unless people constantly reactivate their phones, the alerts won't work. I don't pretend to understand the techie stuff, but apparently Android phones take longer to turn themselves off and a critical number of Android users is needed to turn the Apple phones back on. (It doesn't make much sense to me, but that's what techie people are saying.)

I really can't see this app as an alternative to the advice we're already supposed to be following about social distancing, not touching your face, washing your hands, etc. The worst case scenario would be if people become complacent. I fear that the government might see it as the one and only answer and ignore all the other measures which need to be taken.

From a totally personal point of view, I really don't want to be infected. For me, there's only one course of action, which is to stay isolated until there's a vaccine. I know that could be a year and I'm resigned to that. I've tried to make my life as pleasant as possible and keep my business going. I spend hours every day on social networks (Zoom or Skype mainly) and it's OK. There are even some advantages, such as not spending money on fuel and not having to associate with people who annoy me . I'm buying fresh food from local suppliers, which is expensive, but I do notice the difference in quality and might even stick with them in the long term. I make a huge effort not to waste anything because I value it more. I do online yoga lessons with my former teacher.

(Sorry to digress.)

My point is that, having considered it, I can't see the app would benefit me and I can't see that my not having it would benefit anybody else, so I won't download it.

Anyway, off to bed! I've even noticed I'm getting more hours of sleep, which is good.

I am also sleeping better growstuff

Every cloud eh?!

Your explanation about phones needing to be active was interesting.

When I am out and about, say in a supermarket where there are people around, my phone is in my handbag. I am not constantly looking at it, so from what you have said the app wouldn’t work properly as my phone would be in a sort of ‘sleep mode’.

I don't have a smart phone but wouldn't consider using it anyway. As a law abiding citizen I don't want the government checking my movements. It's just another step towards a Big Brother State. The next thing would be to have it implanted under the skin and you can't leave home without it and this could be the first step. Haven't you all watched the Sci Fi films; that is our future

It doesn't make sense. If we've all been social distancing, then contacting those we've been in touch with is a piece of cake and needs no app.
If it's a way of easing restrictions in an isolated area and seeing what happens, then it's morally wrong to use the Island as guinea pigs without their explicit consent

I would not install an app whose code had been developed by GCHQ. The reason given for not using the one the rest of Europe is using, is that they can collect and retain more data, that doesn't make it more acceptable to me.

The Apple/Google one deletes all data after 21 days, like a CCTV camera, unlike the NHS one which would keep it forever.

The Apple/Google one stores the data on the phone, doesn't create a massive central database (and we all know how well UK Gov handles NHS databases, think NPfIT and Care.Data)

The Apple/Google one will be able to be used anywhere, ours will only work in the UK, and you will probably have to self isolate on going to another country because you can't use theirs, which will destroy the travel industry and any business that needs to travel

Ours won't work with iPhones, which will very much limit its take up

It is reported today that the Parliamentary Committee on Human Rights says it is not reassured that the app protects privacy, and if it doesn't prove effective, the level of data gathered may actually break the law. It says it is highly concerned that there has been no detailed parliamentary scrutiny of the plans for the app, and calls for an independent body to oversee its implementation.

Australia tried to provide its own app using the same format as the NHS and found it didn't work, in that the app wouldn't communicate when it was not on the screen.

I am encouraged that the Financial Times reports that NHSX are changing tack and have approached the Swiss development firm Zuhlke Engineering, to investigate the integration of the Google/Apple system.

If the data stays on my phone and is deleted after 21 days I will install it. If GCHQ are going to organise permanent collection to a massive database, and with Cummings involvement probably sell access to his Cambridge Analytica, they can whistle!