Need help untangling lockdown rules

The whole thing is so chaotic now, to some degree I just do what I think is sensible. After insisting that people should keep 2 metres away from each other, even in the open air, it is now being suggested that this be reduced to 1 metre (indoors also), and that you would probably need to be near somebody for 15 minutes before there was a risk of infection. There are so many contradictions.

If people are outside, keep their distance and clean their hands if contact is made with anything or anyone, I think the risk of infection is minimal, especially in small, well spaced groups. Of course, if people feel very anxious about attending something where it might be difficult to keep to the strict rules, they should decline. I'm sure everyone would understand.

The track and trace thing seems to have been a bit of a disaster so it appears there is nothing in place to deal with the virus anyway, other than try to contain the speed at which it is passed on by restricting contact to as few people as practical. I thought the scientists said it would have to work its way through at least 50% of the population before it would go away (though may reappear in the winter). If that is the case and we continue to have no properly organised and effective way of identifying sufferers and their contacts, then I feel more and more risk has to be accepted because we can't go on like this indefinitely.

Of course, older people and people with significant health risks will often take the decision to isolate themselves completely and indefinitely but this makes for a pretty horrible existence and brings with it other health problems.

ElaineI
In England up to 6 people can meet up as long as it is outside eg a garden or park and as long as they keep 2 metres apart from this from a different household.
I have met with my grandchildren for a picnic however it is not possible to stay socially distanced from very young children so I have been careful but we certainly have not been 2 metres apart and we have touched. I have followed all rules to the letter until the outdoor meetings were allowed and I met my grandchildren.
I do think that people are not adhering to the rules as much now. Especially as they have began to be relaxed and more complex. It is worrying because the virus has not gone away.

Never heard about 6 people. Which country are you in as all 4 are different?

you have that right

I read it that the 4 people in the closed bubble can still meet 2 others in another household outside,making it a 4/2 six ,the bubble of 4 can stay close together but distancing from household of the other 2 ,which is why I suggested in an earlier answer ,playing a game outside either in the park or garden ,the ‘bubbles”handling the toys or sweets for a treasure hunt for example,they can keep close together, the other two participating but keeping their distance .All six of you apart outside but interacting with GC keeping to the guidelines. Not the same as a cuddle but you could still have some distancing fun .Still difficult I agree
Yes good weather needed for this .
I hope you can work something out Furret just an idea .

Ooh, I've got it wrong then. I thought if other GP is in a bubble with your friend's D, SiL and GC, then your friends shouldn't be there as they are not part of the bubble. I know you can all go a sd walk in the park though so perhaps I'm wrong there. Anyway if one GP can get close to GC, and D and SiL don't want others to do that, I'd go on a different day.

Yes, you have it as at today. Hope the weather behaves for the occasion.

All this at a distance of course !

An idea !Why not all have the six of you playing game in the garden if that’s feasible ?A treasure hunt for example so that little one is distracted and won’t have chance to run to the other grandparents ?You could always pretend to run away as a game .The bubble family could hide various toys sweets all over the garden beforehand ,a bit like an Easter egg hunt for example, then when s /he had found it then say right we ll all sing a song , dance or say something funny whenever it’s been found.Maybe count to ten ready steady go too .
Then everyone’s happy even though no cuddle ?

I've given up trying to make sense of it all. We continue to isolate due to personal choice, and with all the confusion, we will continue to do so until WE feel it right to change.

That said despite living in a close where I must s t be the only person under 70, we are the only household who don't receive non distancing visits from family. In fact we have avoided visits.

We're not at all sure what the best thing to do is.

Use common sense - Very recently I saw my GCs for first time in ages. GD wanted to cuddle so I checked with DD and we did cuddle but I was careful and made sure our faces were in opposite directions i.e over the other's shoulder

Newest lockdown restrictions are a puzzle to me so I am trying to be sensible. My daughter with 3 grand-children lives alone although she has had difficulties with an ex-partner and has a health support worker. I live alone and my eldest daughter lives alone. Daughter with my grand-children is not coping and so eldest daughter has just recently taken 2 of the children to her home for an overnight sleepover, which the support worker said is good it will give the childrens mum a break. I have not been in daughters house since lockdown but I have been in there since the talk of the social bubble. I was in there this week as my daughter was emotional and not coping well and the support worker was due also. The support worker was there and did not discuss anything about the lockdown and I explained my reasons for being at the house and the worker said yes this is a difficult time for families and it is good your daughter has you as support. I have no contact with anyone coming into my home and still practice all the social distancing when out and about I do not know anything otherwise and will now carry on to be in social bubble of my daughter not sure if right or wrong.

Growstuff: most sensible advice I've read for a while! People do behave as though the guidelines are designed to spoil everybody's fun instead of stop them getting sick themselves, then pass it on to someone very vulnerable. And if I read one more comment about not being able to hug a grandchild I shall begin to wonder if all the effort so many people are making is worth it! This is still a crisis, we have to put aside our own concerns to get through it.

Your interpretation is correct according to government advice. But aside from that, I feel that the no contact thing with very young children is so hard for them to understand so it may be that your friend might like to think again about how best to visit. We haven’t seen our family yet, who aren’t local, for this very reason but have recently come up with an idea that means it may be easier for the four year old...it means we will see them for a short amount of time and not at our house ..,but something is better than nothing.

How much are all these other people mixing? Are they religious hand washers or 'Oh it'll be OK' types? Are you in a high incidence area or very low? How prepared are you to catch covid 19? Here is the dashboard link. You can click on the LTLA tab to see your own locality. coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

Agree with growstuff.
Just use common sense!

Thinks....what would Dominic Cummings do?
Ah, I see. That's the answer.

We've witnessed the so called "rule makers" break their own guidelines time and again. Sometimes wonder if they know something we don't or are just arrogant enough to think it couldn't happen to them. I suppose though that Hancock might have antibodies and thinks he's now invincible? ?
As others have said above, it's up to each of us to make our own risk assessments with as much consideration to others as possible.

I agree with vampirequeen. Do your own risk assessment and go from there.

I agree it is quite complicated if you stick to the "rules"

Luckily the weather has been dry and warm all through April and May so we are quite used to sitting out in the garden and having lovely long chats with one or two friends and once with DD and DGD.

2 metres isn't very far apart. We have a small table in between and it works fine.

I wondered about the grandparents. When we were told one DGP could be in a bubble. What about the other one!
Recipe for disaster and jealousy.

I hope your friend sees the family but I find it easier not to get too excited and then you won't be disappointed.

I agree with you Bluebelle
Most of us have done our very best to stick with the rules and then you see this...

Hancock described people breaking social distancing as 'very selfish'
Look at him being all unselfish
I think that you have the rules right Furret
What a difficult set of circumstances

You could well be right!

Do whatever you want to do having watched Hancock put his arm on a fellow politicians shoulders yesterday and three of them stand shoulder to shoulder until one realised and stepped back I d say do absolutely anything you feel is right for you

I’ll pass that on to my friend growstuff but in a slightly less abrasive manner.