Get a grip Public Health England

Furret, your link, I believe, confirms what I stated in my post @07:58 today, so many thanks for finding that link.

This might clarify the requirements GD

Coronavirus & riddor

Public Health England (PHE) will only be able to obtain accurate data on Covid-19 workplace infection if employers are required to document the illness under the "Reporting of Injuries, Diseases and Dangerous Occurrences Regulations" (RIDDOR).

The problem in using RIDDOR to report Covid-19 infection would be that the regulations are specifically aimed at accidents and illness which are definitely incurred in a workplace. However, with Covid-19 An employer is unaware whether the infection was incurred in the workplace or an employee was infected in another environment outside of the employers control.

The Health & Safety Executive have been looking into "an emergency adjustment of the regulations" in the light of Coronavirus but that is proving to be a complicated problem, as RIDDOR has only been required and used to report individual incidents to the HSE in the past.

Since I start this thread it has been revealed that information is not being decimated to local authorities - despite Boris’ bluster at PMQ. He actually lied in response to Starmer’s question (surprised?)

Local health authorities in Leicester were denied the detailed information they could have used to to track the outbreak to specific postcodes etc.

Hmmmm! indeed, growstuff

We all know just how efficient private companies are, don't we? PPE, tracing apps, passing on test results...

It's the utter determination to shrink the state, in the face of all the evidence that private = inefficient, that really annoys me. So many lives sacrificed to ideology...

Hmmm!

UK set to award Covid-19 testing contracts worth £5bn to private bidders

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/02/uk-set-to-award-covid-19-testing-contracts-worth-5bn-to-private-bidders

But it's not the first time Wheniwasyourage!!
It falls on deaf ears.

Callistemon, you beat me to it! I often find your posts unbelievable and even offensive, quizqueen, but this time you are just plain wrong. To describe coronavirus as flu, even a 'stronger strain of flu' could be likened to calling a tiger a rabbit (perhaps a 'stronger strain of rabbit'?), in that they are both mammals but not otherwise comparable.

quizqueen

It's Not Flu

It is a different strain of virus to which no-one had any immunity

There may well be different strains of flu and colds going around at the moment too, and will be in the future.

OK! So maybe they've been getting the data from workplaces, but they haven't been getting a full picture of community infection.

For example, they haven't been informed if somebody rings 111 with symptoms and is told to self-isolate or somebody goes to hospital and is treated. They don't know about pensioners who are infected, but just stay at home to treat themselves. In my area, most people attend a hospital which is not in the designated CCG. If a patient is treated there, the home authority is not informed.

The local district council has been complaining bitterly for weeks that it just has not been getting the information it needs. Anecdotal information doing the rounds on social media just has not matched the official data and the council has not been able to plan or act.

But furret was saying that there was no system to inform when outbreaks are occurring in work places.

And there is. In my recent experience a very efficient one.

She even says in her original post about the two or more confirmed cases.

Data is necessarily a grouping together of similar occurrences over a passage of time. It shows a trend not specifics.

So it's that direct, fast information that will curb an outbreak not data.

Quizqueen there has been been public health regulation since the beginning of recorded history. Why would we want to relax public safety now of all times when there is a very infective disease on the rampage?

Illte

I can see that lumping published data together could fudge things.

But like I said that isn't how the system works.

Local health teams don't have to rely on the data.

When two or more cases are identified in the same setting by testing local health teams are alerted as to where.

You can't get more specific than that.

Data will always have a time lag on it anyway. Why not just act on the direct information.

Because they haven't been getting the data. Local health teams do have to rely on data. If somebody tests positive, but does not work and is not in a "setting", local health teams have not been informed.

I can see that lumping published data together could fudge things.

But like I said that isn't how the system works.

Local health teams don't have to rely on the data.

When two or more cases are identified in the same setting by testing local health teams are alerted as to where.

You can't get more specific than that.

Data will always have a time lag on it anyway. Why not just act on the direct information.

Local Directors of Public Health have not been getting the data they need to identify sources of outbreaks:

"Outbreaks in care homes, hospitals and prisons: These need to be treated independently, and are currently included in the data. We know that there are outbreaks in these locations, and PHE report on these (but we don’t know where these outbreaks are taking place). So Pillar 1 and Pillar 2 data by itself does not indicate that there is community spread – this may be confined to these special locations

Local Directors of Public Health are the experts in their local areas: These professionals are experts, know their communities well, and understand the dynamics of transmission far more than can be ascertained by looking at figures in a database. There have been delays in getting this data to local authorities and issues with data quality, but the Prime Minister has promised in the House of Commons that the data is now getting through."

www.duncanrobertson.com/2020/07/01/which-city-could-be-next-for-a-leicester-like-lockdown/

"Settings" include care homes, which still have the highest number of cases. Schools have the second most number of cases, which might explain why the government wants to fudge the data.

quizqueen I have other issues which make me extremely susceptible to dying from Covid-19 if I were to catch it. However, I manage my health issues well and I have an almost normal expected life span.

How dare you suggest I "get a grip"? I'm already getting a grip by avoiding "being an exception". I take responsibility for my health by being aware and I believe I have a right to accurate and timely data.

How dare you treat other people's lives so cheaply?

People can't stay off work forever just because there's a stronger strain of flu going round this year and, if they do make that choice then it needs to be at their own expense once businesses decide to re-open. If they showed you daily pictures of people on ventilators in hospital every year on your tv screens and published daily death figures, some people would be too terrified to do anything all the time.

The 'vulnerable' still out go on car trips and there's always the chance you will die in a car crash every single time you get in a car. Every time you get on an aeroplane there's a chance it may crash but they aren't banned because there's a possibility that may happen. There's also more chance you will die of another disease like cancer where treatment has been delayed because of lockdown measures. People really need to get a grip. One thing is for sure, when you are born, sometime in your life you will die, and where and when that happens is unlikely to be of your choosing.

Personally, I think most of the deaths recorded as being because of covid-19 will have been in people who had other issues where they would not have had a long life span anyway. There will always be exceptions, of course.

But the people who needed to know, the local health team, were alerted and went in with extra testing and closed the place down.

So it worked.

If you don't want to published actual names of places then is publishing one sandwich place, one clothes factory, on whatever any more helpful?

Illte

the cases were recorded under “other settings”

Other settings does not specify what settings. It is too generic. Get it now?

No, I don't get this post.

When two or more positive tests are identified from the same source local health teams are alerted.
So there is a system for identify where the outbreaks are occurring.

I can see that local health teams might vary. But the system is there.

Furret

Not at all. Set up a system so you know where outbreaks are occurring eg restaurants, factories, schools, etc.

That way you get a clearer picture. No rocket science as they say.

Good point.
Ignoring the information and obfuscation are NOT going to make it go away - remember Trump the other day suggesting that the problem in the US was “too much testing“?
Is we can see this why on earth can’t the “powers that be”.
PHE is simply not fit for purpose.

But that's what test and trace does.

That’s it exactly Blinko.

...be sure...