Why we are still in deep trouble

gillybob

Does anyone, anywhere have the real figures?

I'm beginning to doubt it. 40% of this and 10% of that means nothing at all.

Why is it that in England (and I mean England not the UK) every death of a person who tests positive for CV is logged as a death from CV? My neighbours mum had terminal cancer with only weeks to live. She was in hospital where she died and tested positive for CV. The cause of death was named as CV except it wasn't was it ? For very personal reasons my neighbour is fighting the authorities to have it changed. This is only one example

Did you see what was written on the death certificate?

Ellianne

I don't think maddyone is lumping all young people in Manchester together as huge drinkers, but she is right that the drinking culture is indicative of today's lifestyle excesses, particularly amongst the younger generation. I am aware it's the same in highly populated Hackney and Stratford where the infection rate is rising and where mumerous people are out in the pubs and bars on a nightly basis. I used to go to the pub in London, 35 - 40 years ago, but only once a fortnight because I just didn't have the cash to splash, even though I had a good job in banking. Today people want to go out partying as often as they can, spend as much as they can and meet as many random people as they can. There's no point trying to keep workers safe when they are behaving like this in their spare time.

There are a number heavy drinkers where I live in wealthy, white, old middle England.

Oopsminty

...*but she is right that the drinking culture is indicative of today's lifestyle excesses, particularly amongst the younger generation.*

I thought it had been established that the younger generation don't drink as much as their parents did.

I know my three don't!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/11/young-people-drunk-acohol-millenials

Did you know that some of the biggest "problem" drinking is amongst the more affluent middle aged and retirees? They do it at home - out of sight - that's the difference.

I notice it particularly because I don't drink alcohol at all and I'm given strange looks whenever I'm invited anywhere by anybody of my own age.

You could also "blame" some of the grannies on GN who thought that hugging their grandchildren and having (allegedly) socially distanced meetings didn't count.

Sorry, but there are a few people in glasshouses, including those who think it's all been grossly exaggerated, in all groups.

The way people have started blaming "others" is really quite unpleasant. It says a lot about the blamers.

Mine are not part of this mindset either Oopsminty, but I know that in a social setting that they are quite prone to binge drinking and parting with a lot of money.
There is a culture of drinking in which excessive alcohol consumption is encouraged amongst young people as part of group belonging. I dislike catching the tube home now after the theatre not because I encounter drunk people, that isn't new, but because of the huge throngs of people who collectively have no inhibitions and show no consideration. This translates into their attitude towards the spreading of the virus.

"Don't ask gillybob
You will get your knuckles rapped and be accused of being a supporter of this Government^

When in fact you (and I) are querying a possible anomaly in compiling statistics, even just in the UK

I would go so far as to take away the word "possible" Calli

...*but she is right that the drinking culture is indicative of today's lifestyle excesses, particularly amongst the younger generation.*

I thought it had been established that the younger generation don't drink as much as their parents did.

I know my three don't!

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/11/young-people-drunk-acohol-millenials

I don't think maddyone is lumping all young people in Manchester together as huge drinkers, but she is right that the drinking culture is indicative of today's lifestyle excesses, particularly amongst the younger generation. I am aware it's the same in highly populated Hackney and Stratford where the infection rate is rising and where mumerous people are out in the pubs and bars on a nightly basis. I used to go to the pub in London, 35 - 40 years ago, but only once a fortnight because I just didn't have the cash to splash, even though I had a good job in banking. Today people want to go out partying as often as they can, spend as much as they can and meet as many random people as they can. There's no point trying to keep workers safe when they are behaving like this in their spare time.

gillybob

Does anyone, anywhere have the real figures?

I'm beginning to doubt it. 40% of this and 10% of that means nothing at all.

Why is it that in England (and I mean England not the UK) every death of a person who tests positive for CV is logged as a death from CV? My neighbours mum had terminal cancer with only weeks to live. She was in hospital where she died and tested positive for CV. The cause of death was named as CV except it wasn't was it ? For very personal reasons my neighbour is fighting the authorities to have it changed. This is only one example

Don't ask gillybob
You will get your knuckles rapped and be accused of being a supporter of this Government

When in fact you (and I) are querying a possible anomaly in compiling statistics, even just in the UK .

There is going to be a huge rise in unemployment once the government support schemes finish, could well be up to 6 million

Exactly MazieD but there are still a lot of people who have the "I'm alright Jack" attitude. My own region is set to be one of the worst hit.

The economy needs normality now

If people think that the economy is ever going to return to 'normality' before we have a reliable vaccine (and probably after, too) they are not facing reality.

Large swathes of the very lucrative culture and entertainment industries are in deep trouble and are unlikely to recover because of their very nature - large audiences, indoor venues. Hospitality will struggle for the same sort of reasons. Many small businesses with no cash to back them have struggled or already failed.

There is going to be a huge rise in unemployment once the government support schemes finish, could well be up to 6 million.

And on top of that we'll have the minimal or no deal Brexit shock.

No 'normal' for a very long time...

Does anyone, anywhere have the real figures?

I'm beginning to doubt it. 40% of this and 10% of that means nothing at all.

Why is it that in England (and I mean England not the UK) every death of a person who tests positive for CV is logged as a death from CV? My neighbours mum had terminal cancer with only weeks to live. She was in hospital where she died and tested positive for CV. The cause of death was named as CV except it wasn't was it ? For very personal reasons my neighbour is fighting the authorities to have it changed. This is only one example

whether or not it is true
Callistemon Cripes! You were quick! I was only away 6 mins having a toilet break, (no prostate problems here after that op.!) Although that too sounds like a rumour!
Your quote, I mean!
Just to avoid any accusations of gender bias, the Queensland PM announced today that three "fellers" have only just done what those three girls did.
I'd support a "Name and Shame" policy any day of the week!
Now I'm off to the Good Evening Chewsday thread for a bit of RandR!
OoRoo

I know you hail from the north west growstuff and so do I. My entire family live in the north west, except our children and ourselves. We came south years ago for my husband’s work. Our children were born in the south. My mother came south and lives in a sheltered apartment near to me after Dad died. We regularly (before Covid19) travel back to the north west to visit family and friends.

The government has made numerous mistakes in the management of this pandemic which has cost many lives, and perhaps any government would have had difficulty in dealing with such an unprecedented situation. What I find inexcusable is that they fail to acknowledge and importantly learn from their mistakes.

The point of this post IMO is that they are continuing to do so, and bypassing expertise, in this case almost 70 leading clinical virologists, with testing contracts awarded on apparently ideological grounds to private sector companies, rather than based on expertise.

There should be far more accountability about how contracts are awarded, and private testing companies should at the very least be partnered with the NHS or PHE so that there is some over all control.

I’m not lumping them all together growstuff but it cannot be denied that there is a drinking culture among many younger people, all over the country. However when I’ve been to the north west for family celebrations, I’ve seen at first hand how strong the drinking culture is with both the younger members of the family/friends and with older people of my generation.

growstuff

My daughter is a young person (27) living in Manchester. Please don't lump them all together as great drinkers.

She's also HR manager of quite a large company and has been tearing her hair out trying to find solutions to keeping people working in safety.

PS. I come from the North West.

biba70

*The economy needs normality now.*

do you think No Deal will really provide that?

No, but it Covid-19 will be an ideal scapegoat.

My daughter is a young person (27) living in Manchester. Please don't lump them all together as great drinkers.

She's also HR manager of quite a large company and has been tearing her hair out trying to find solutions to keeping people working in safety.

The economy needs normality now.

do you think No Deal will really provide that?

Yes growstuff I absolutely agree with you re Trafford, I know it has a very high infection rate. I would guess, but don’t know, that the high infection rate there is possibly caused by people going out, to pubs, restaurants, and The Trafford Centre shopping. It’s also a highly populated area. My parents lived in Cheshire and I was brought up there. The whole of Greater Manchester is now in semi lockdown. My dear friend from school is upset about it, they’ve been following the guidelines.
There is a huge drinking culture in the area. Some members of my family go to the pub and drink a lot. All middle class people who work or worked in middle class jobs. The drinking culture is rife throughout society with many young people. It is a huge culture with many in the north west. I’m not suggesting you are a heavy drinker growstuff.

The trouble with antibody tests is that they're not very accurate. They can give an indication of community infection by comparing one time period to the next. However, for the individual person, they're no absolute guarantee of immunity, so aren't that useful.

Rufus I'm not relying on rumours.
Yes, I have heard the stories of the guards too, whether or not it is true in a couple of isolated case.
I also know that three young women have been detained in Queensland having been on a shopping spree in Melbourne, then on to Sydney. They denied having been to Melbourne and have brought COIVID back with them to Brisbane as they went clubbing on their return and have tested positive.

Callistemon

^BTW For herd immunity to be achieved, at least 60% of the population would need to be immune (preferably 80%).^

It would be a good idea if more people could be tested to see if they have had the virus if they think they may have had it. It would also be interesting to know just how long antibodies, therefore immunity, last in the system.

Getting an antibody test is well nigh impossible and the results could be equivocal anyway as yet.

I agree. We need far more testing of all sorts. We also need local, up-to-date data, so that individual areas (even buildings) can be targeted. We need to know more about what's going on without all the fudging and lies.

BTW For herd immunity to be achieved, at least 60% of the population would need to be immune (preferably 80%).

It would be a good idea if more people could be tested to see if they have had the virus if they think they may have had it. It would also be interesting to know just how long antibodies, therefore immunity, last in the system.

Getting an antibody test is well nigh impossible and the results could be equivocal anyway as yet.