Why we are still in deep trouble

growstuff

No JenniferEccles it's not madness. Approximately 40% of those who are hospitalised with Covid-19 carry on having serious symptoms for months, possibly for life. Reports were published yesterday about the serious effects on the heart, which sometimes don't become evident for a few weeks. Germany offers echocardiograms to people who have been hospitalised.

It's also highly unlikely that somebody would die from something completely unrelated within weeks of having a serious Covid-19 infection. Obviously, it will become an issue in the future, but at the moment it's just being used as an excuse.

But Scotland and Wales do not count COVID19 deaths like that according to the news last night.
Apparently they count anyone who had been diagnosed with the virus within the previous 28 days and subsequently died as having died from the disease.

Luckygirl

The point about underlying conditions is that it increases the risk of death from Covid. Those conditions are not being dismissed. They are mentioned because it is relevant to the nature of the virus and to how it might be handled.

Covid19 is characterised by a slow rate of mutation, so lockdowns and quarantines are a good way to go.

Getting on top of the virus is the first step to get the economy back on its feet.

Yes! I couldn't agree with you more!

Getting on top of the virus is the first step to get the economy back on its feet.

DiscoDancer Yes, we are all going to die and if you wish to take your chances, that's up to you. Personally, and as somebody "with underlying health conditions", I'm not that keen on dying just yet. Local infection rates have been creeping up for weeks and it's not inconceivable that deaths could be in 6 figures in the UK, if we just let it runs its course. No, thank you!

The point about underlying conditions is that it increases the risk of death from Covid. Those conditions are not being dismissed. They are mentioned because it is relevant to the nature of the virus and to how it might be handled.

Covid19 is characterised by a slow rate of mutation, so lockdowns and quarantines are a good way to go.

Getting on top of the virus is the first step to get the economy back on its feet.

The one that irritates me is people who say when someone dies of Covid “oh they had underlying conditions “ as if that makes it alright , totally disregarding the fact that said person may well have lived for years and years with that underlying condition.

I’m inclined to agree with you Urmstongran. It’s not like the film ‘ Contagion’, where everyone who caught it died, horrifically, any age. Lemongrove gave us the two options. Originally, it was about protecting the NHS. I think the government have done really well. I’m not normally a Conservative voter, but I can’t see anyone else doing any better. We pray every morning for a young mother we heard about on the news, who is now battling against a cancer which has gone further than it would have done in normal times. She said she didn’t want to go to the doctor, and put it off. I’m sure she’s not the only one. We have to be sensible and do what hopefully saves the majority. We are all going to die, and I feel we live in a society now, where this just isn’t accepted, and is fought against at all cost.

There's no chance of normality for the economy or anything else until we have control. As a country we have expertise, financial and physical resources that need to be harnessed to ensure the best possible outcome. At the moment autumn is likely to result in a surge of new cases and all the effects that is likely to have. National lockdown is not impossible, we must strive to make the most of this respite.

Other countries also have high numbers of "ethnic groups". Germany and France both have a higher percentage than the UK.

If ethnicity is such an issue, how come Trafford, which is predominantly white British, has one of the highest infection rates in Greater Manchester?

Ethnicity and obesity don't make people more susceptible to infection. Lack of effective social distancing does, as well as an inadequate test, trace and isolate system.

No JenniferEccles it's not madness. Approximately 40% of those who are hospitalised with Covid-19 carry on having serious symptoms for months, possibly for life. Reports were published yesterday about the serious effects on the heart, which sometimes don't become evident for a few weeks. Germany offers echocardiograms to people who have been hospitalised.

It's also highly unlikely that somebody would die from something completely unrelated within weeks of having a serious Covid-19 infection. Obviously, it will become an issue in the future, but at the moment it's just being used as an excuse.

I disagree with you absolutely Urmstongran. It's not either/or. The sombrero analogy was just childish. It would be possible to bring the case rate down much lower, but the government needs to be prepared to upset people in the short term - supporting them in necessary. That would include targeting financial support and accommodation for those who can't self-isolate.

Davidhs I agree with you about schools. I just don't see how schools can return to anything like normality in September without a huge spike in transmission. I've seen the plans some of the schools have made (via my online students) and I know that parents don't have much confidence that they can be made to work. The logistics are just impossible.

There are many factors which contribute to our high death toll.

I was shocked to read that if a person has a positive covid test, recovers but then months later dies of something else, that death is still added to the virus total. Isn’t that madness? Other countries apparently don’t do that.

We also have a high number of ethnic groups susceptible to the virus here, and of course there’s the fact that we are the second fattest nation in Europe.

Lots of people maintain that our lockdown should have come sooner but the government was concerned that if it was introduced too soon, we would be fed up and start going out and mixing just at the peak.

The timing was critical, but in the event the government was quoted as saying they were astonished at the level of compliance.

Davidhs Do you have any links to sources about the virus mutating significantly and being unpredictable? Everything I've read has suggested the opposite ie that it has mutated, but not that much, and it's behaving very predictably - but I realise that there is ongoing research.

0.6% of those infected end up fatalities. Meaning 99.4% survive. Yet, Government and scientists demand we shut down all forms of life? Why?

The sombrero got squashed to help the NHS cope.

The economy needs normality now.

The government is playing catch up all the time, while that is happening the virus is mutating and being very unpredictable.

There is one aim the government has achieved, the number of hospitalized cases has been controlled to a level the NHS can cope with. It may be that is the best that can be achieved, the virus will continue to spread until we have all been exposed and achieved immunity or the virus weakens.

From the experience we have gained, the virus likes cool damp conditions, so as we go into autumn cases will increase so I don’t give much hope of large scale gatherings being allowed, including schools. If I had kids I would be planning for online schooling to continue, maybe with kids going in one day a week. So I am planning for the worst and intend to keep up distancing I hope I am wrong and the virus goes away

What lemongrove said.

I agree with you lemongrove

At the risk of this just becoming a game of “i agree with you” I think Daisymae is right as is Luckygirl.

JE. With respect, saying virologists are just concerned with the virus is a bit odd? What would you expect ?!

The pandemic is still evolving, we must make control methods as effective as possible. It shows no sign of going away any time soon.

It also relies on proper lock downs rather than the half-hearted measures we've had.

Being able to lock down local hotspots relies on efficient testing, tracing and isolating. I don't see that there's a problem with what the virologists are claiming. At the moment, the system is nowhere near good enough and it needs to be.

Lemongrove you are spot on.

Last night's programme about the virus was very interesting. The lead on Oxford's vaccine programme made her views on the government's handling very clear indeed.

Are we saying it is chance that we have the worst record of coronavirus deaths in Europe? And we are an island - closing our borders right at the beginning would have sorted that. I was dumbfounded when this did not happen.

As to the economic issues - the two go hand in hand: if you do not get control of the spread of the virus the economy gets worse. So - priority has to be controlling the virus, which in turn will lead to economic gains.

Ditto sparklefizz

I agree lemongrove and Jennifer

But surely it makes sense to tap into the established resources that are open to the government to minimise impact and influence the course of the virus? This has to be the most effective way of getting back to a new and acceptable normal of benefit to public health and the economy.