Exam results

PS. What do you mean by "top colleges"? Oxford, Cambridge and medical degrees still conduct interviews, but the vast majority don't. I suspect colleges, such as Imperial, UCL and the other Russell Group unis wouldn't take kindly to being referred to as anything but "top colleges".

Private schools vary a lot in their specialties, some have a high intake of “special needs” pupils, some vocational, some academic. Parents who can afford it can choose what they think will help their child most, from 7 to 11 I did go to a private school. I was not academic and failed the 11+ exam continuing at the local High School, where in several subjects I was 2 yrs ahead of my classmates.

One of my grandsons is dyslectic the private school he attended gave him a big advantage, he now runs his own business very successfully. Any school is about resources, more resources means better education, schools are using grade inflation to cover up lack of resources.

Daisymae If I were a pupil who had missed out this year, I would be heartbroken.

However, I hope they will bounce back. The university fresher experience isn't going to be anything like normal. Cambridge has already stated that all teaching will be online this year. To be honest, the whole point of going to Cambridge is the seminar/tutorial system and spending three years with other bright young things, so I would feel that the experience wouldn't be as it should be. Manchester Uni has said that all teaching will be online until January. Other unis are going to delay starts too.

My son is part way through a degree at a Russell Group uni and has been told teaching won't start until October. He's still unsure what to do about accommodation and, of course, he's till being charged £9,250pa fees, with interest accruing on the loan on a daily basis.

If it's at all possible to take a year out (finances permitting), I think I'd do it and resit next summer. There won't be any teaching available, but teaching yourself isn't impossible, if you've already done most of the course. If I were a university admissions tutor, I'd be impressed by the determination and motivation of somebody who still wanted to do the course, despite setbacks.

David, what do you mean when you say " schools are using grade inflation to cover up lack of resources " ?

Surely a greater effort should have been made to allow pupils to actually sit their exams rather than just shutting down the whole process. It doesn't say much for these exam boards that they were incapable of putting in place an alternative procedure to enable the exams.

Absolutely agree. I Know universities need students etc. But I would advise anyone in my family to delay for a year
What is the point of sitting your room having online lectures

Davidhs

Private schools vary a lot in their specialties, some have a high intake of “special needs” pupils, some vocational, some academic. Parents who can afford it can choose what they think will help their child most, from 7 to 11 I did go to a private school. I was not academic and failed the 11+ exam continuing at the local High School, where in several subjects I was 2 yrs ahead of my classmates.

One of my grandsons is dyslectic the private school he attended gave him a big advantage, he now runs his own business very successfully. Any school is about resources, more resources means better education, schools are using grade inflation to cover up lack of resources.

I'm not sure how you work that one out Davidhs. Private schools overestimate grades too and they're not usually short of resources.

What we have this year is a situation where, for example, two pupils have been estimated for the same grade. Pupil A goes to a private school with small classes and the grade hasn't been adjusted. Pupil B goes to a large sixth form college, where A level classes are much bigger. Some colleges have over a 100 entries for popular subjects such as English, Maths and sciences. Teacher assessments have been completely disregarded for these large centres and the exam boards/Ofqual have used a computer-generated algorithm to calculate the grade.

Pupil A and Pupil B could be absolutely identical in terms of attainment. Their teachers could both have overestimated or been accurate (nobody knows), but Pupil A receives a higher grade purely because he/she was taught in a smaller class.

Private schools tend to have much smaller classes and teach minority subjects, such as Latin and German, which haven't been downgraded because the uptake is rarely high.

Stuart96

Surely a greater effort should have been made to allow pupils to actually sit their exams rather than just shutting down the whole process. It doesn't say much for these exam boards that they were incapable of putting in place an alternative procedure to enable the exams.

I know it’s anecdotal but the exam board I had to use at A level for my subject made me despair with illogical decisions about syllabus changes plus some very questionable marking !

Stuart96

Surely a greater effort should have been made to allow pupils to actually sit their exams rather than just shutting down the whole process. It doesn't say much for these exam boards that they were incapable of putting in place an alternative procedure to enable the exams.

I agree. I know the situation was getting very serious in March, but exams, by definition, involve social distancing. I don't know whether it was the exam boards, Ofqual or the government which made the decision to cancel the exams.

Priority could have been given to Year 11s and Year 13s to make sure they still had support at home, providing them with laptops, if necessary.

Lucca

Absolutely agree. I Know universities need students etc. But I would advise anyone in my family to delay for a year
What is the point of sitting your room having online lectures

The biggest joke is that students whose courses involve a year abroad have been told that they will have a virtual year abroad. How the heck is that going to work?

So, we all wait, with serious trepidation, next Thursdays GCSE results. My heart goes out to those youngsters, their families and their teachers, who are now really worried that they are likely to kicked very hard. Hopefully, they will all be able to go on to whatever is there next couple or so years of study,etc. Of course, if Maths and English results fall low, they will then have to re-take these, no choice for them there.
I would think that Williams will go, within a week of these next results being announced.
Do hope that Uni's are being really open and welcoming at the present with trying to get those students who wished to go to them still to come. Universities are chosen for a number of reasons.
Probably number one is the actual course itself. I know my g.son had much lower offers from other Uni's, but none of them had the course, which for him, Southampton offered.
No. 2 is distance from home. Okay, I have known students in the past who have been determined to get as far away as possible, but for most, it is good if they can feel that (come any sort of emergency), a parent can be with them within a couple of hours.
No. 3 is the 'feel' of that University. Often one just 'clicks' as being right.
The next cohort (those taking their A levels next year) are only able to have on-line visits to Uni's. But even with these, that feel of being right can take place.
I have a g.daughter who will (hopefully) going to Uni next year and has been doing these on-line visits and has come down very much in favour of one both for the 'feel' and the course.
I am concerned that for Uni entry in 2021 there are going to be a very large number of student, with many actually deciding to wait for a year, sort out their grades, etc.

The top colleges you mention and several others get so many applications, all with 3 A* in relevant subjects they have to choose who they think will do best. Inevitably students from private schools have an advantage because they are better prepared, as are overseas students that pay much higher fees.

There is nothing to be gained by grade inflation the A pupils realistically should be 25% of the group, A* maybe half of that.

Waiting a year is a difficult decision, what can they do in the meantime, jobs are going to be very scarce and travel is off the agenda.
Hard times for all.

Davidhs

The top colleges you mention and several others get so many applications, all with 3 A* in relevant subjects they have to choose who they think will do best. Inevitably students from private schools have an advantage because they are better prepared, as are overseas students that pay much higher fees.

There is nothing to be gained by grade inflation the A pupils realistically should be 25% of the group, A* maybe half of that.

Well, that's not quite true either (and I'm not sure how it's relevant to what's happened this year). There's been a big push for years for Oxford and Cambridge to recruit pupils from state schools. Their admission tutors even run training sessions for sixth form staff, so that they know what they are looking for.

Big sixth form colleges in places such as Cambridge and parts of Hampshire know just as much as any private school about sixth form teaching and university admission.

There's a super selective state school in London, called Brampton Manor Academy, which has 47 successful entries to Oxbridge this year. It's not to do with being private. It's to do with having experienced sixth form staff. Unfortunately, many sixth forms don't have huge numbers of entries (and that includes private schools), so don't prepare the pupils as well as they perhaps should. I know because I sometimes end up picking up the pieces in private tuition (private and state school).

I'm still not sure what you mean by "top colleges". The majority certainly don't interview or set separate entrance tests.

Davidhs

Waiting a year is a difficult decision, what can they do in the meantime, jobs are going to be very scarce and travel is off the agenda.
Hard times for all.

That's why I said "finances permitting". They're going to have to use the bank of Mum and Dad and possibly pick up a bit of work in a pub or supermarket. For most, it's not the end of the world, although I don't suppose they see it like that at the moment. If they still want to do a degree after a year, they're showing that they're committed.

David hs , why do you say that pupils are better prepared in private schools ?This is a very unfair generalisation. I know of schools where pupils move from the private sector to the state for A level courses. You need to look at Harris Academy in the East End. 62 offers from Oxbridge this year
I have friends who have tutored private school pupils . You really should not come out with sweeping statements like that.

^icanhandthemback - The whole family now think that my eldest son (the one that got that scholarship) has a lot of autistic syndrome tendecies. Never had any sort of assessment and he has led a happy and useful life without that. Excellent job, beautiful wife, lovely house. He turned 50 yrs last year........ So it is better that he never even knows what we all think
On the other hand, my youngest son went straight through the state system. Seemed to have considerable problems with English and other subjects - to the extent that I actually asked, when he went to Secondary school that he not do a second language, but concentrate on English - this was refused and he was given extra lessons in writing - to no perceivable improvements.
It was after he went on to 6th form college for A levels, having just about scraped in, largely on the basis of the fact or his older siblings having done well there. During his first term there, I actually sent off samples of his writing (which looked like that of a first year infant), to a Professor at Sheffield Uni (where one of my daughters was attending). This professor was doing research in dyslexia. Did not think my son had this as he could read fluently.
She came back to me with the word "Dyspraxic". First time I heard of this (1993). I passed her letter over to the 6th Form College and could not believe how quickly and appropriately they acted. Within days, my son had a meeting with an Educational Pyschologist and even she was taken aback when she asked how he managed to take notes as he could not even read his own written notes. He told her he just tried to memorise things! A computer was given to him to use at lectures/lessons, etc. Turned out he was very highly intelligent and coasted easily past his A levels with excellent results and, prior to that the Uni he chose so much wanted him there, they actually held a special meeting of their Senate to offer him (for time ever for that Uni) a 3 x E entry (really meaning Unconditional).
No private school could have acted better or quicker than this 6th Form college in an East London borough.^

Franbern, I can well believe your son went through his primary and secondary education without anybody mentioning the word, "Dyspraxia". My son's also have this along with a connective tissue disorder and this makes their handwriting unreadable. Even after my son was diagnosed, the school were as obstructive as they could be about using a laptop or checking his homework diary notes were legible so we could at least help him. They seemed to think that as he could spell and read, there was no real problem. The only way they would take any notice is if he was disruptive. It was just so frustrating watching a child getting so demoralised because he just couldn't do the writing the others could do.
We had greater hope when he entered the FE college because the assessments were in place from the beginning and they gave him extra help which consisted of a helper for spelling because they were unsure of what to do for him. I don't know what we expected from a place where the tutors openly smoked pot in the music department, effed and blinded at performance evening whilst getting pickled but it didn't help him a jot.
We were only going to send our younger son to his school for his secondary tuition out of money that was left to us unexpectedly by somebody who knew my husband as a boy but the difference was so profound that when he wanted to stay on for 6th Form, my husband spent his retirement lump son to provide that for him. We are not rich, we both went to State Schools and our other 5 children did too. His state Primary School was excellent and it never occurred to us we would need to pay for an education. The video footage I have of his class in his first Secondary School is shameful.

Students are better prepared in the private sector. University is assumed. I know of year 10 pupils who don't actually know what A levels are. Some large state comps do not have a 6th form. Needless to say little guidance on choice of A level and how they fit into the system. It's an uphill struggle.

Daisy Mae ,it is not true to say that students are better prepared in the private sector,
I have already said that where I am some move from the private sector to the state for a-levels.Generalisations are not helpful.
The whole point is that the results have been a shambles. Here is a quote from the Times:
"some head teachers were furious at the anomalies thrown up by Ofqual's methods. Vicky linsley, head of St Mary Magdalene Academy in Islington said that an A level geography pupil had her teacher assessed grade pulled down from B to E in that subject because Ofqual's algorithm dictated that someone at the school had to get an E in that subject, no matter how bright . In previous years about 10 pupils had taken geography and in the past two years one pupil had got an E.This year 15 pupils took the subject , and their GCSE results showed the cohort was more able than the previous years . The pupil ranked the lowest on the B grades was bumped to E."

This was confirmed on the BBC news and there you have one of the ways the algorithm has affected students unfairly.

It is not acceptable and Williamson must go. He has had months to prepare for the results and the last minute scramble shows he had done nothing.

An interesting exchange as Ruth Davidson criticises Nicola Sturgeon on the subject.

Isn't there research that shows children from state schools often out perform those from private schools once they all get on the level field at University?
Young people at (good) private schools are taught in smaller classes and generally have much more individual input than those in big inner city comprehensives.
I've become more angry as the news has gone on today. I heard three different young people whose teacher prediction was A or B - who were given a U. One of them had done A Level Art, was predicted B and got U. That simply can't be right.

Watching the head of a large 6th form I was astonished to hear him saying that they had had to allot pupils a place from say 1 to 200 and that they were not permitted to put more than one pupil at each level, even though the pupils might have gained exactly the same grades and mock results. How on earth can that be right?
It seems that the algorythm is only applicable to schools or subjects that had large numbers of students involved.

The use of the school's usual results as a factor for deciding results really concerns me.

It is a way of keeping the sink schools down. An individual child who works hard or is blessed with an academic brain has been judged on the general results of their school - this cannot be right.

One head was talking about how they were required to put their pupils in an order (best - poorest) but could not have several pupils on the same rung, so found themselves having to decide between two pupils with identical achievements and put one above the other.

I feel sorry for the pupils who have missed out - confirmation for them that the world they are embarking on is not fair - but also for the teachers who have worked so hard to do their best for the pupils and are also having to swallow these injustices.

Fascinating thread, thank you all- especially about the IB.

GCSEs next week are not so so important and life changing- and schools have the flexibility to still allow students to go on to A'Levels- and retake maths or english if necessary.

All so wrong and unfair.

trisher

Watching the head of a large 6th form I was astonished to hear him saying that they had had to allot pupils a place from say 1 to 200 and that they were not permitted to put more than one pupil at each level, even though the pupils might have gained exactly the same grades and mock results. How on earth can that be right?
It seems that the algorythm is only applicable to schools or subjects that had large numbers of students involved.

Yes, you are correct. If one candidate last year was awarded a U, then this year the candidate at the bottom of the list has been given a U, no matter what his/her actual performance was like.

Not only that, but if 5% of candidates achieved A* last year, but this year one candidate out of 30 is absolutely brilliant and was guaranteed an A*, it can't be awarded because it's less than 5% of the total.