Youtube: Dr John Lee, retired pathologist.

Namsnnany
Thank you for the link. Nothing surprised me but it was refreshing to listen to someone with more ologies than you could rattle a spoon at giving a different perspective.
My stepdaughter and my son in law both work with numbers kept saying from the beginning, something is wrong here.
My next door neighbour who is a nurse told me things that I wouldn't repeat on GN.

I half listened to it but felt it was just saying that lockdown was a result of scaremongering and hysteria. Given that we knew so little about the virus back then and it is still very dangerous for people with co morbidities: that people wouldn’t have properly adhered to measures such as social distancing and mask wearing, transmission by asymptomatic carriers wasn’t widely understood etc I don’t see how there was an alternative to lockdown. The interview also seems to hold Sweden up as an example of how to deal with the virus whereas everything I’ve heard seems to point to Sweden virtually having a policy of euthanising the old and sick. I admit that I probably need to listen to it properly but what I did hear disturbed me.

They were not holding up Sweden as how to deal with the virus - just pointing out that Sweden, without lockdown had similar death rate as those countries that did lockdown. A direct comparison with nearby neighbour - district of Denmark with district in Sweden with similar population showed little difference in result between lockdown Denmark and non-lockdown Sweden.
It is a very long piece, but well worthwhile putting aside the time to listen to fully - if people did do that might take away some of the anxieties of those who seem to be scared to come out - as if anything that the government has done with regards to this virus has been in any way good.

Well said Franbern....
This is really worth watching...confirms the views of most of my family and friends..

Franbern ... It is a bit long but
If people do (watch the video discussion) that might take away some of the anxieties of those who seem to be scared to come out

I felt that too.
Anxiety was what prompted me to read some of Dr John Lee's opinions.
When I found this video I already had some understanding of where he stood and how he evolved his ideas about the handling of the pandemic.
There has been such fear and anxiety, which is understandable, but I found this (all be it long) gave me quite a consolidated view, from someone who seems to have a well rounded knowledge of all aspects of the problem.

I just hoped others might find something in the video that allayed their anxiety somewhat.

Namsnanny
Throughout all these months I've never been anxious, frightened, worried. The Doctors video encapsulated everything I've thought all along.
It just all made sense. I was pleased that he referenced Neil Ferguson, the 'expert' who advised the lockdown and then proceeded to break the rules. Obviously he didn't believe the advice he was giving out.
So why did he advise the lockdown.
A conversation to be had with friends ?

So good to learn there are others on here who are not being totally paranoid about this virus.
On another thread because I dared to give total support to getting our children and young people back into the educational establishments and stated that people should get things into proportion - I was lambasted.
From very early on I felt there was something like a very large OTT with this lockdown - understood the need in those early days to try to give the NHS (who due to long-term under-funding) a chance to get to grips with those who were very ill.
Of course, if the Cygnet report had been acted on, then PPE and medical serviced would have been very well prepared for this.
But for the past three months or so have struggled to come to terms with the increasing conflicting and knee jerk so-called 'advice' we are being given.
Became almost nervous of exprssing myopinion as I was then dismissed as a 'virus denier', which I most definitely am not.
Read of people, so often ,(almost gleefully) forecasting great spikes because people went to the seaside, on demos, visited family, etc. etc. It almost seemed as if some people were virtually disappointed when those spikes did not occur.
This video was a breath of fresh air to me and I am so thankful to Nanmsnanny for putting it up.

But Sweden did have a lockdown but it wasn’t mandatory. And lots of people there are following the guidelines. I honestly don’t think that people in this country would have had the sense to adhere to lockdown type policies without it being enforced. And Sweden is not the great success story it’s made out to be by some. The reason why Ferguson stupidly broke the lockdown rules was because he’d had the virus and knew he was no longer infectious. It didn’t mean that he didn’t believe in the lockdown he’d advised.

Franbern Most people aren't "paranoid". Being sensible and rationale by understanding the risks isn't being paranoid. "Daring" people to so something which is unwise isn't clever. Your use of language is gaslighting.

Namsnanny Maybe there are those of a nervous disposition who have shown "fear and anxiety" but most people have just been rationale and used their heads to understand the risks.

Franbern Those who have "anxieties of those who seem to be scared to come out" might not be scared or anxious at all. Maybe they're just using their brains. Why are you so keen to tell people they're scaredy-cats for being rational?

I think many are confused with multiple ‘experts’ providing information, so they live within their own comfort zone, of which there are many. It’s a situation we’ve never dealt with before and many know of people who have suffered, died or are suffering. I personally, have never known anyone die, or be hospitalised with flu, but I have two friends who were with Covid. Each of us has our own reference points, we reach our own conclusions and behave accordingly. Thanks for posting link Namsnanny

Also worth watching for straightforward, transparent advice:

twitter.com/i/status/1300539431565381635

The same video for those who don't like Twitter:

edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2020/08/31/lead-offit-live.cnn

Seems to me that no matter what view point you take there's someone who will back it up, therefore we give more credence to them. Sweden have not been a roaring success when compared with their near neighbors.

If i understand his perspective, Dr Lee is simply asking for the knowledge that the world has now aquired about Covid, to be used to inform future decisions.

Yes he is critical of the lack of scientific scrutiny used so far.

He isnt invested in any one idea, or against anything except that which has no scientific support. He just wants the facts to speak for themselves.

Then developing a strategy based on them.

I assume as he is retired he has no other agenda than the best outcome for humanity.

Thanks Namsnanny it’s helpful to get some perspective on this. I think the media fastened on to the virus and wouldn’t let go. It caused more anxiety - out of all proportion in my opinion.

I also am reassured by the views of Professor Carl Henegan and have been for some weeks. He is a member of the SAGE group too.

I think I should correct the above and point out that Dr Lee is against modeling, which most of the advice has been based on. As he sees it, it cannot provide the firm answers that science needs.

I find this comparison of Sweden and Ireland very misleading. One of the factors that must be taken into account is the density of population. Sweden is about 6 times bigger in area than Ireland but the population is about 10 mill compared with just over 4 mill for Ireland- so approx half, which means that the population density is much less in Sweden leading to less contact,less transmission and so less need to lockdown. Lies, Damned lies and statistics.

growstuff ... suggesting people are/were anxious wasnt meant as a pejorative comment.
I'm sorry if it came across that way.

I was anxious. Not just for myself but for my relatives too.

trisher ...
lies damned lies and statistics
A perspective I've allowed myself to be led by!

But at some point we have to make sense of it all and I think to do that Jaxjacky has a good point when she said
we all live within our own comfort zone

I think it's an interesting debate but using Ireland and Sweden as exmples doesn't add up. But Iwonder if anyone saw Brian Cox on Lorraine this morning he had a Covid test and has anti-bodies so must have had the illness. He said the only period he can remember when he wasn't well was in December when he had a few days sneezing-but that was before it was supposed to be about.I don't think anything is clear about this.

You might very well be right. All the more reason for those either in power or in science to be open to listening, without prejudice.

I had an early morning dog walk and nodded off when I got home so missed Lorraine. I’d like to hear what Bryan Cox said. I’ve just read a report where they fed everything known about the virus into a computer. It took a week for it to work everything out (bit Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy’ish) but came to the conclusion that it wasn’t a disease of the lungs at all: that was just an effect of all the other things going on. I know some people have likened it to the effect of altitude sickness. Oh, and it also said that Vit D would help prevent someone ending up in hospital. I’ll try to find it but don’t know how to share things on the iPad I’m currently using.