School infection

Callistemon

And the transport is public - not a school bus.

I'm not sure what you mean. I know some pupils use public transport, but in this area most of the school buses are "school buses", paid for by the local authority.

trisher

Head of the Haverhill school on TV 134 children self isolating but no confirmed cases, 16 staff tested positive and possibly 24 self isolating he wasn't sure of numbers yet. The school is closed but will re-open soon.
Seems staff are much worse off.

One of my online students is a pupil at that school. I received an email from her mother early on Monday. She has been told to self-isolate and had some symptoms on Sunday. The latest I heard the mother was going to get her tested, but I haven't heard anything since. Fingers crossed, but there's a possibility the daughter is infected.

Fortunately, there weren't many pupils in school on Thursday and they weren't all back on Friday, so hopefully it hasn't spread too far into the community. It seems fairly clear it started with one member of staff on a training day. The contact tracing hadn't been completed by yesterday afternoon.

The school now has about a third of the staff self-isolating, so supply agencies are going to be busy! I've done quite a bit of supply work there and I know it's not always easy to find supply teachers to work there.

Two of my grandchildren attend a large comprehensive and went back yesterday.

Very little has changed, except that they have mostly double lessons which reduces the amount of movement between classrooms and there are different break times. There is no attempt at social distancing and masks are hardly ever worn, but they've been told that each year group is to be treated as a "bubble"- over 300 children!

I cannot see how they can possibly avoid covid spreading in these circumstances.

Head of the Haverhill school on TV 134 children self isolating but no confirmed cases, 16 staff tested positive and possibly 24 self isolating he wasn't sure of numbers yet. The school is closed but will re-open soon.
Seems staff are much worse off.

And the transport is public - not a school bus.

There's also the issue of transport, which mixes pupils from different "bubbles
I mentioned that somewhere, it could have been on a different thread, growstuff.

Many pupils have to use public transport which is very overcrowded. Talking about distanced seats on the bus to school is a nonsense, as one of my DGC says there were not enough seats anyway - she has to stand for the 8 mile journey.

Then is she in a bubble with the same group at school? No.

So with that in mind why didn't the government get universities to return at the same time as schools?
Elliane the government has no juristriction over universities, it could suggest they go back but it is entirely up to each what they do about opening. Most are worried about infections and deaths.

If only all the so called scientific advisors said it like it is like Jonathan van Tam. Chris Whitty spoke about opening up too many things and having to balance it with the priority which is getting children back to school. He is strangely quiet at the moment.

Further to my post in reply to MaizieD earlier agreeing with her that the number of new cases is actually more significant than the number of hospitalisation or deaths, this from Professor Van-Tam
People have relaxed too much,” Prof Jonathan Van-Tam said. “Now is the time for us to re-engage and realise that this is a continuing threat to us

It’s all very well saying that hospital admissions and deaths are at a very low level in the UK, which is true, but if you look further into the European Union, you can see that where case numbers rise initially in the younger parts of the population, they do, in turn, filter through and start to give elevated rates of disease and hospital admissions in the older age groups, and we know that that then becomes a serious public health problem

That’s my concern, that if we don’t get on top of this, if people don’t start to take this seriously again, then there is a risk that that’s where we end up.”

Earlier in the day, the health secretary said younger people, especially those in better-off areas, should remain observant of distancing rules if the UK was to avoid a wider return of the virus, as seen in Spain and France

Ellianne

^The rise in the number of cases we’ve seen over the last few days is largely among younger people – under-25s, especially between 17 and 21. The message to all your younger listeners is that even though you’re at lower risk of dying from Covid if you’re under 25, you can still have really serious symptoms and consequences.^
So with that in mind why didn't the government get universities to return at the same time as schools? That would blanket together most of the country's youth. Then if lockdown restrictions needed to be re introduced in various regions, by starting back 2 or 3 weeks sooner, the university students wouldn't be missing out on their education.
I don't understand all this stage by stage approach. I know university lecturers spend a lot of time in the holidays doing research and writing papers, but they should have been asked to get the students back in earlier. It's just delaying the inevitable.

I don't really understand the logic. Most university lectures are going to be online, at least until Christmas. Cambridge has already said that all teaching will be online for a year, so students might as well stay at home.

That's true Callistemon. However, the issue in schools is that they can't socially distance. However much anybody claims that schools are "Covid safe", they just cannot be. Classrooms aren't big enough and getting over a thousand people through one entrance/exit twice a day is a logistical nightmare. There's also the issue of transport, which mixes pupils from different "bubbles". Once just a single person (staff or pupil) brings infection into a school, it's inevitable it will spread.

Schools are doing all they can to prevent the spread of infection.

However, schools have no control over what teenagers do out of school and young people have been gathering in large numbers and ignoring social distancing.

No matter how much efforts school staff put in to make the school environment safe, it will be brought into schools by youngsters ignoring any advice outside school.

The rise in the number of cases we’ve seen over the last few days is largely among younger people – under-25s, especially between 17 and 21. The message to all your younger listeners is that even though you’re at lower risk of dying from Covid if you’re under 25, you can still have really serious symptoms and consequences.
So with that in mind why didn't the government get universities to return at the same time as schools? That would blanket together most of the country's youth. Then if lockdown restrictions needed to be re introduced in various regions, by starting back 2 or 3 weeks sooner, the university students wouldn't be missing out on their education.
I don't understand all this stage by stage approach. I know university lecturers spend a lot of time in the holidays doing research and writing papers, but they should have been asked to get the students back in earlier. It's just delaying the inevitable.

lemongrove but we all know that. The question is why didn't the government insist on masks? Teenagers always take risks, but few schools have them wearing masks. They will catch and spread the virus, some of them will show no symptoms and simply be spreaders, so will younger children. It is highly unlikely that a vaccine will be developed quickly, but if enough younger people have had the virus we will have herd immunity.

However, even masks and face coverings are not without risk it seems

lemongrove

trisher

I don't suppose it is much comfort to the teachers involved that the death rate isn't increasing. The long-term health problems which result from Covid are probably more of a worry, particularly for any staff who have other health problems. They may be off work for weeks, months or even years. Masks might have helped but I do now think that there is now a policy of developing herd immunity being put in place, allowing the virus to spread amongst the younger population. So I suppose teachers are just collateral damage.

No trisher it’s not a policy......it’s younger people themselves being selfish eejits (to put it kindly.)

I think "herd immunity" has become the official policy, whether or not it's admitted or not.

This is what Matt Hancock said today:

“The rise in the number of cases we’ve seen over the last few days is largely among younger people – under-25s, especially between 17 and 21. The message to all your younger listeners is that even though you’re at lower risk of dying from Covid if you’re under 25, you can still have really serious symptoms and consequences.”

While the mortality rate among young people was lower, Hancock said, they could still be susceptible to debilitating long-term symptoms. “Also, you can infect other people. And this argument that we’ve seen that you don’t need to worry about a rise in cases because it’s young people, and they don’t die – firstly they can get very, very ill, and secondly, inevitably, it leads to older people catching it from them.”

Hancock dismissed the idea that the increase in cases was largely down to more testing, saying the figure for so-called test positivity – the proportion of tests that show someone does have Covid-19 – was also going up.

The point was reiterated by Downing Street, as Boris Johnson’s spokesman urged people to act. “The rise in the number of cases is concerning, and we’re seeing them predominantly among young people,” he said. “Generally, a rise in cases among younger people leads to a rise in cases across the population as a whole. That’s why it’s so important that people maintain social distancing and don’t allow this illness to infect older generations.”

Does he not realise that secondary age pupils are just as infectious as adults? In most schools, social distancing, which he stresses is so important, is impossible. He is here telling young people to be careful because they could infect older, more vulnerable people. Secondary school pupils are exactly the same, but he keeps going on about about transmission rates amongst pupils being low. It doesn't make sense.

trisher

I don't suppose it is much comfort to the teachers involved that the death rate isn't increasing. The long-term health problems which result from Covid are probably more of a worry, particularly for any staff who have other health problems. They may be off work for weeks, months or even years. Masks might have helped but I do now think that there is now a policy of developing herd immunity being put in place, allowing the virus to spread amongst the younger population. So I suppose teachers are just collateral damage.

No trisher it’s not a policy......it’s younger people themselves being selfish eejits (to put it kindly.)

I see. They are only returning today in the South, and some not until later in the week.

As far as I am aware Callistemon in North Wales they returned last week.

Add Haverhill to the list.
8 staff have tested positive.
A further 16 staff and 115 pupils are self-isolating.
The school will remain shut for another day.

If it is rife in the community, we are all at risk and there will be some who are lucky and only have relatively mild symptoms while others - the elderly, the frail, those with other health conditions - will be as much at risk as they were back in April.

Exactly why I wear a mask religiously, almost all of the time, apart from when I'm at home (I often work 7am to 10pm, so for LONG periods). A colleague of mine asked me to take my mask off yesterday because he couldn't understand me. But he is young, fit, with no underlying conditions. Selfish arse.

It was predicted that this would happen.

Welsh schools only returned today, didn't they?

Add Bangor and Wrexham schools to that list gagajo

Add Caerphilly to the list, Gagajo

Seeing news reports of crowds of young people outside nightclubs in Cardiff and Newport, it's not surprising Cardiff and Caerphilly are on the list of rises in cases.

It could be too soon to blame those on schools returning as they are only going back this week. Not all pupils have gone back yet.