National Lockdown to be announced next week?

Oh goodness Franbern, you've just reminded me as a child I used to have to draw a picture and write every child's name on 40 luggage labels for my mum's class. Then I'd go into school with her and tie them to those metal shoe cages. Lots of cutting and sticking in preparation too. Busy, busy. Fond memories!

Ellianne, your g.sons' school sounds so great, as are so many schools. People who think that when the pupils are on holiday so are the teachers have so much to learn. One of my daughters and her daughter spent Halloween night with her 'bubble' cousin cutting out and colouring in leaves for her cousins infant classroom. So not only the teacher, but all her bubble family involved in preparation for after half-term.]

Have said all along, that attending school is so much more than just learning the three R's. For all ages, the interworking with their peer group assists learning and helps socialisation. Without this, mental ill health increases and many children have already been very damaged this year.
KEEP SCHOOLS, COLLEGES AND UNIS OPEN

This thread has gone all emotive like others before where posters accuse others of calling teachers selfish and lazy. Maddyone is correct that neither of these adjectives were in any way used here against teachers, but merely dragged up by the naysayers once again putting words in mouths.
My little grandson's school has implemented new safety measures over half term such as changing the route round the building to avoid bottle necks, loosening up on school uniform so the children can wear joggers and extra layers, and constructing an outside adventure zone from pallets and tyres. The school IS giving the children continuity of learning and a feeling of security whilst adapting, but it can only do so if it remains open.
And to someone who said that several months without an education is a small price to pay, may I enlighten them that education, especially for primary aged children, goes way beyond just learning subject matter and regurgitating it.

maddyone

I’m sorry to say it, but I outlined yesterday and the day before why schools cannot close. I’m not writing it all again, but I will say that I believe that older citizens who are perfectly able to take many precautions to avoid becoming infected, but who wish to trash the life chances of our children are simply being selfish!

Totally in agreement with you on this Maddyone.
My heart does go out, though, to all those shops and business's that were closed for so long, then spent lots of money making their places covid-safe, only now to be closed down again.

To paraphrase - I am seeing the lights going out one by one on my High Street, many I will not see re-lit ever.

The subject of school closures is going to be discussed on Jeremy Vine's programme on Radio 2 at 12 noon today.

Sparklefizz
Please read my post again. I didn’t say teachers were selfish, in fact in my estimation teachers are the exact opposite of selfish because they want the very best for their pupils. What I actually said was that older people, who are perfectly able to take precautions (because in the main they are retired) are selfish if they want schools to close to protect themselves. That is what I said and I said nothing about teachers being selfish. Nothing at all!

People are all talking about 'a new normal.’ That doesn’t mean we should all take up knitting or jam making rather than going to the theatre or having a meal out. It means that schools will operate differently, in common with GP surgeries, hospitals, dentists, vets, shops, and so on. Wearing a mask, sanitising, and social distancing is our new normal when we visit any institution, and schools are following suit. Of course there will be classes, bubbles, year groups, and staff sent home on a regular basis in order to isolate. This has already happened to members of my family, some of them pupils at schools, others working in a variety of settings, including schools. This is what is meant by a new normal.

It is not the dedicated teachers who want to trash children’s life chances. It is selfish older people who can take steps to protect themselves!

May I ask a general question about Social Distancing?
Under COVID rules, heading ‘Social Distancing’ dated early October the GOVUK website says:

•“You do not need to socially distance from anyone in your household, meaning the people you live with. You also do not need to socially distance from anyone in your legally-permitted support bubble if you are in one, or someone you’re in an established relationship with. If in the early stages of a relationship, you should take particular care to follow the guidance on social distancing.”

Does the comment on ‘established relationships’ still apply to the 3 Tiers (and even after Nov 5th)?
Has anyone seen any authoritative information on this?

MayBee Chris Witty also said about schools' reopening that the infection rate would need to be very low (which it never was across the whole country) and that an efficient Test, Track and Isolate needed to be in place (which it isn't).

MayBee70 The countries that have had more success in controlling the virus have greater compliance because of fear of their governments and the harsh penalties inflicted.

We saw on early news bulletins that the Chinese police bashed in the doors of apartments to drag out severely ill people who had not reported their infection. My oldest granddaughter is a teacher in Qatar. There is compliance there because the fine for not wearing a mask is absolutely huge, or a 3 month prison term. Naturally everyone follows the rules.

Meanwhile in Bristol at the weekend there was a 700+ strong rave in an empty warehouse where the police were assaulted and it took 17 hours to clear all the people.

maddyone

I’m sorry to say it, but I outlined yesterday and the day before why schools cannot close. I’m not writing it all again, but I will say that I believe that older citizens who are perfectly able to take many precautions to avoid becoming infected, but who wish to trash the life chances of our children are simply being selfish!

The ones who want to trash children's life chances are those who cannot or will not accept that schools are not Covid safe environments. As sparklefizz has described, schools are already sending children home like yo-yos. There cannot be any continuity in those circumstances. In some areas, there is more than one in a thousand new cases every day. In a school of over 2000, the chances are high that at least one pupil or member of staff is one of those new infections and will then go on to infect others, including family members of all involved. It would be better to face facts and adopt a Plan B, which might include a rota of part online and part face to face teaching. The alternative is a longer lockdown, which won't do anybody any good, including young people.

How do I start a new thread?

When there was talk of reopening schools Chris Witty said at the time that we would have to give up on other things to compensate for the increased risk. So, what did the government do? Eat out to help out, that’s what. They should have just given pubs and restaurants financial help to stay closed. The most important thing at the moment is to let children lead as close a normal life as possible but I fear we’ve now gone beyond the stage where that will be possible. I heard that Belgium are almost at the point where there are more Covid patients than beds and they can no longer send them to Germany as their cases are rising, too. Why don’t (didn’t) we look at countries that have controlled the virus and copy them? Did anyone watch the documentary on BBC last night about Trumps handling of the pandemic? It closely resembled what has happened here.

news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-teaching-union-calls-for-schools-to-be-closed-as-part-of-england-lockdown-12120428

maddyone As I'm sure you will know if you have contacts in the teaching profession, children and teachers are intermittently having to be absent from school due to Covid.

My grandson had suspected Covid symptoms, so he and his sister and my teacher daughter all had to quarantine until he had had a test and got his results... thankfully negative.

They had all only been back at school/work when a child in my grandson's bubble tested positive, so once again he had to quarantine, this time for 2 weeks. On that occasion my daughter was allowed to go and teach because he was not showing any symptoms.

Some children and teenagers are developing Long Covid following Covid infection, and so are adults. Long Covid is horrendous and life-changing.

I don't know how you can consider it "selfish" for schools to close in order to effect a firebreak and to stop the spread of infection amongst children and teachers, and the intermittent stop-start of education and the anxiety and emotional unsettling that stop-start causes.

I greatly resent your implying that my daughter is "selfish" in wanting schools to close during lockdown to break the infection rate when she - and other teachers - have worked their socks off since January, during all the holidays, in order to educate and support their students and also their own children. In no way is she selfish!!

To me, all the Facebook doctors and epidemiologists are to a certain extent to blame for leading gullible people to disobey the rules. Of course, it’s easy for people to justify their rule breaking by quoting posts saying that ‘the masks don’t work’ ‘ Gybrovia didn’t lockdown, and they’ve not had one case’, ‘ the lizards are telling you lies via the media’ ‘ Denise Welsh says it’s a con’, and so on and so on. Okay, there is no absolute proof that the measures work, but surely if you thought there was even a chance that following the rules would protect other people, you would do it, instead of taking to social media and demanding proof that the measures were effective, otherwise ‘ nobody is going to muzzle me’ or ‘nobody is going to stop me seeing my family at Christmas’?

I’m sorry to say it, but I outlined yesterday and the day before why schools cannot close. I’m not writing it all again, but I will say that I believe that older citizens who are perfectly able to take many precautions to avoid becoming infected, but who wish to trash the life chances of our children are simply being selfish!

Give did not announce a possible extension. He was interviewed by Sophie Ridge on SkyNews and was pushed by Sophie Ridge, who asked the exact same question three times because she didn’t like the first two answers, and on the third time he was asked he said an extension couldn’t be ruled out. I would have thought anyone with any degree of understanding of the Coronavirus situation would understand that it’s impossible to rule anything out until we get an effective vaccine rolled out across the country, or until the virus itself becomes less infective or less deadly.
Within five minutes of Gove being pushed into saying that an extension couldn’t be ruled out, the ticker tacker tape on SkyNews was announcing: Breaking News, Gove says possible extension of lockdown. That’s the level of journalism we have to cope with in this country!

I agree growstuff. Schools are mostly not safe and my daughter is very stressed. Some of the classroom windows don't even open at the school where she teaches. There's not enough space and it's not as if teachers can wear PPE like medical staff.

She cleans 30 tables and chairs every hour, and is as scrupulous as she possibly can be, but with 1500 teenagers milling around the school, many of whom are forgetting or not bothering with the rules, she needs eyes in the back of her head.

She is a single parent with 2 children, each at different schools. The possibilities for a virus breakout are tremendous.

Of course teachers want to be in school teaching their pupils, but they also want those pupils and members of staff to be as safe as possible.

Ellianne

What I DO know growstuff is that by so doing I would be following the current guidelines. I can't wave a magic wand for the fabric of every school in the land and remove the risks totally, but I am a doer, an optimist and I never give in. Those are the qualities I care about instilling into my pupils.

What you could do is face the facts and accept that a Plan B might be the best solution. Nobody in their right mind would willingly sit in a poorly ventilated room for hours with only about two square metres of space for every person and not even a face mask. The advice from government for all other areas is different for schools, but coronavirus doesn't get to the school gates and head off in a different direction because the government says schools are safe.

Gove announced a possible extension

And still it continues people giving really rubbish information, as growstuff is pointing out, to those working in schools.

Sorry - meant to say "he did NOT announce there would be an extension

I don't usually comment on these threads but can I clarify just what happened in the Gove interview.

He was asked several times if the lockdown would be extended if the numbers did not go down. He eventually agreed if they didn't go down then the lockdown would have to be extended (a logical assumption I would have thought). He did "announce" there would be an extension.

There seems to be massive disagreements going on at the moment in the Johnson government. That was the reason for the chaotic press conference and it huge delay, as there was a bitter row going on between the various factions.

It seems that Johnson was bounced by Gove into locking down before he was willing to do so.

Now Gove has announced a possible extension - to Johnson’s huge annoyance. No 10 immediately repudiated the idea of an extension.

The bitter in fighting will be evident in the commons this week when the lockdown is debated, although we know that the Tories are very good at putting a lid on these things.

I suspect that Johnson - the appeaser- after listening to Steve Baker, promised the hard liners that lockdown would be limited and as little as possible and Gove has made it his business to scupper the plans.

blue25

Schools definitely need to close. We won’t get the numbers down with schools open and it spreading through families via children. Lives are more important than a few months of education.

Problem with that is that if primary schools close It creates a huge problem for parents needing to work And in turn may well lead to grandparents ignoring guidelines in order to help out