NHS staff NOT first in the queue for vaccine

For what it’s worth, I think NHS staff should be a priority for the vaccine.

Others mention teachers, but what about supermarket workers, bus and taxi drivers, delivery drivers, anyone who has been dealing with the public for the last nine months or so?
All worthy of consideration surely?

But they can’t all be priority.

"Given the current epidemiological situation in the UK, all evidence indicates that the best option for preventing morbidity and mortality in the initial phase of the programme is to directly protect persons most at risk of morbidity and mortality."

"Current evidence strongly indicates that the single greatest risk of mortality from COVID-19 is increasing age and that the risk increases exponentially with age. Mathematical modelling indicates that the optimal strategy for minimising future deaths or quality adjusted life year (QALY) losses is to offer vaccination to older age groups first."

"There is clear evidence that those living in residential care homes for older adults have been disproportionately affected by COVID-19 (see references 20 to 23) as they have had a high risk of exposure to infection and are at higher clinical risk of severe disease and mortality. Given the increased risk of outbreaks, morbidity and mortality in these closed settings, these adults are considered to be at very high risk. The committee’s advice is that this group should be the highest priority for vaccination. Vaccination of residents and staff at the same time is considered to be a highly efficient strategy within a mass vaccination programme with the greatest potential impact."

"Frontline health and social care workers are at increased personal risk of exposure to infection with COVID-19 and of transmitting that infection to susceptible and vulnerable patients in health and social care settings. The committee considers frontline health and social care workers who provide care to vulnerable people a high priority for vaccination. Protecting them protects the health and social care service and recognises the risks that they face in this service. Even a small reduction in transmission arising from vaccination would add to the benefits of vaccinating this population, by reducing transmission from health and social care workers to multiple vulnerable patients and other staff members. This group includes those working in hospice care and those working temporarily in the COVID-19 vaccination programme who provide face-to-face clinical care.

There is evidence that infection rates are higher in residential care home staff , than in those providing domiciliary care or in healthcare workers. Care home workers are therefore considered a very high priority for vaccination."

"This priority list is as follows:

1 residents in a care home for older adults and their carers
2 all those 80 years of age and over and frontline health and social care workers
3 all those 75 years of age and over
4 all those 70 years of age and over and clinically extremely vulnerable individuals
5 all those 65 years of age and over
6 all individuals aged 16 years to 64 years with underlying health conditions which put them at higher risk of serious disease and mortality
7 all those 60 years of age and over
8 all those 55 years of age and over
9 all those 50 years of age and over

It is estimated that taken together, these groups represent around 99% of preventable mortality from COVID-19."

www.gov.uk/government/publications/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020/priority-groups-for-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-advice-from-the-jcvi-2-december-2020#references

Txquiltz

Decisions on immunization should be prioritized by need until enough vaccine is available to all. By definition healthcare providers on the front lines (intensive care units, emergency rooms, ambulance personnel) are truly at huge risk. They rely on their expertise and PPE to keep safe. If we don’t protect them, we have failed to recognize their sacrifices. After they are immunized, then we can move onward. Knowing the cacophony of pans being beaten on to show support or vaccine protection, which would you choose?

The "need" is to save lives, which is why it was decided to prioritise those most at risk of dying, ie care home residents.

That won't happen now. The concern is that it is unlikely that more doses will become available within the next couple of weeks and that there will potentially be thousands more deaths in this group, unless they continue to be shielded, which means they won't be able to see friends and family.

Ellianne

^In about 1 in every 24,000 doses of vaccine, a skin rash of small, bruise-like spots develops up to six weeks after vaccination (called idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura, or ITP). This can also occur after measles or rubella infection, and is more common as a result of the diseases than as a result of the vaccine.^
Crikey growstuff I have to hand it to you, you should be a doctor! ITP that's exactly it and so rare some doctors haven't met it. The problem is it stops the child doing PE at school and neither can they travel by air incase they have a brain bleed.

I knew because many years ago the daughter of somebody I knew developed the same "bruise-like spots" after contracting rubella. I didn't know the medical term for the condition, so I looked it up.

I developed something similar because I had (still do have) a low platelet count.

Vaccinations aren't the primary cause.

Listening to Independent Sage yesterday they briefly discussed the impact of the vaccine. Although a truly brilliant breakthrough we will still have to follow other measures alongside it. I dont think we will have the freedom in the spring we hoped for. On the plus side at least the weather will be warmer for garden visits.
I think the only concern I had about the vaccine wasnt about the vaccine itself but the administration. I did read that the government were going to need to recruit a workforce to administer it. Yes,I know they have training but the thought it could be an ex barista etc does worry me a little when you think of the training nurses have. Hopefully it wont happen or its administered by a type of epi pen. Maybe it's not as difficult to inject a vaccine as I think,comments from medics welcomed!
As a young child in the 1960s I contracted measles. I remember everyone being very serious but fortunately escaped unscathed. I also had german measles,twice! As an adult I spent the majority of my working life working with adults with learning disabilities and there were a substantial group whose mothers had rubella. Both my daughters had all the jabs going!
I often wonder why we dont vaccinate against Chicken Pox. It's a harmless but unpleasant virus for childeren. It can however be as harmful as rubella if contracted in early pregnancy. They do seem to ask about it now. My eldest daughter came down with it on Christmas Eve when she was 5. We didnt take her to the Drs. She didnt need it and my ex husband was a nurse. When pregnant she was going to see her friend whose child had chicken pox. Of course she had had it but you find yourself doubting self when so vital. She didnt risk it. My eldest daughter had spots galore. My youngest just had a few. I was in my early 30s and hadn't had it as a child. I got it. Quite scary,had to wake up during night to take antiviral tablets with strict instructions from GP to call ambulance if problems with breathing. In one of our local residential homes lived a young father who had contracted chicken pox and was left very disabled. So yes,a vaccination would be good.
With regards to Covid there must be so many people who cross groups due to age/ vulnerability. Yes older people over 80 most at risk. Then theres all the other groups.
I think the thing I feel saddest about are those that are so isolated. This is going to take time. Most of us will soldier on patiently with good and bad days.
It breaks my heart to think of not only older residents in care homes but all those who are younger in care homes with complex medical needs and or learning disabilities. I worry about carers who have been struggling in there homes whether they are themselves elderly or young carers. Accessing services such as day centres which is often vital respite for the carer and stimulation for those they care for is now very limited. I used to work in a day centre and have friends who still do. They have been doing stirling work,online classes and videos, phone contact and forming bubbles so they can offer home support. I think initially it was hoped it would just be three months ,when it became apparent it was going on longer at least we had good weather. Now we are faced with winter and goodness knows what January will bring. That's why the false hope that was raised by Johnsons announcement is so very cruel,along with the announcement that the rapid tests are not reliable.

My adult daughter became ill with ITP when she was 20 years old. as far as she can remember had no illness prior to that. She was going through a bad time, had left home in a huff, dropped out of school, and was working as a shop assistant.
Feeling ill enough to go to her GP (this was back in 1990), she was told it was because she was 'depressed'!!!! No tests were carried out.

Eventually, when when she lost her job and the flat share, I made her come back home. Then on the day of her g.fathers funeral she was so ill she hardly made it there (she was very much my Dads favourite g.child and she idolised him) , The same afternoon as this was carried out I spent in hospital A&E with her. it was a Bank Holiday weekend.

On the Tuesday I contacted her GP to make an appointment and a silly receptionist told me it would not be for a week,. A couple of phone calls by me later, got an appointment for later that morning! With me taking her, and obviously willing to make a fuss, GP finally took blood tests, etc.

Result was alarm all round. Her platelet level was so low, she was told NOT to clean her teeth, and I was told NOT to let her sleep in a room by herself as there was a danger of a spontaneous bleed at any time!!!

Wonderful heamotology department tried her on steroids, but when they did not work, she had to have her spleen removed. I got her home from hospital following that operation very quickly as felt it was safer for me to nurse her at home. She made an excellent recovery medically, and also used the time to take an external A level - got a new job as a Health Care assistant in mental health. Over the next few years, this led her on to being sent by NHS to take her professional qualification and degree (achieved a First), and a great career.

Within two years of this op. she purchased her own small flat. so ITP actually turned her life around completely. Her lack of spleen has never caused her any problems, and she is a busy, active and healthy 50 year old now with a teenage daughter.

Franbern Thank goodness things turned out well for your daughter. My bout of it was caused by the medication I was prescribed after a heart attack and was sorted quite quickly when the cause was identified, although it was frightening at the time.

The little girl who had it after rubella was hospitalised and was quite poorly. Vaccination would almost certainly have prevented it. I remember it particularly because another friend was pregnant at the time. Fortunately, she didn't develop symptoms, but had a very anxious pregnancy.

growstuff

MawBe The Rubella vaccine is no longer given on its own, so I couldn't find out how effective it is. Apparently, the Rubella element of the MMR jab is 97% effective, so you must be one of the 3%.

Of course, Growstuff -not “routinely” given on is own, but in our day, (60 years ago?) given to teenage (hopefully pre-childbearing) girls and in my case post natally because I had no antibodies.

That's why the false hope that was raised by Johnsons announcement is so very cruel,along with the announcement that the rapid tests are not reliable. (Dorsetcupcake)

I agree. The vaccine won't eliminate risk of serious illness completely because the efficacy isn't 100%, but it would certainly have been a factor in minimising risk, which is probably the best anybody can hope for.

MawBe

growstuff

MawBe The Rubella vaccine is no longer given on its own, so I couldn't find out how effective it is. Apparently, the Rubella element of the MMR jab is 97% effective, so you must be one of the 3%.

Of course, Growstuff -not “routinely” given on is own, but in our day, (60 years ago?) given to teenage (hopefully pre-childbearing) girls and in my case post natally because I had no antibodies.

You're a one off!! (smile)

?

No, MawB is not alone!
I was startled to be told that I needed a rubella vaccination when I was in hospital having just had DC3.
I did say it was shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted but they insisted I had it anyway. I remember getting a shocking headache afterwards.

The Rubella vaccine is no longer given on its own
Well, mine was given 38 or so years ago, not last week

Wow, I had no idea there was a vaccine against rubella so many years ago! It wasn’t something offered to girls of my age, where I lived. I recall having it quite clearly. I was at grammar school and fainted in morning assembly. I spent the day in the sick room, looking wan, (no sending you home in those days!). I was most annoyed because it was half term the next day and I spent it being ill, but was recovered in time to go back to school the following week.

Rubella immunisation was introduced in the UK in 1970 for pre-pubertal girls and non-immune women of childbearing age to prevent rubella infection in pregnancy.
Rubella-Gov.uk

So it was introduced way after I had left school. It must have been one childhood disease I avoided.

I have a sinister explanation to the change in policy which makes perfect sense ( in my eyes ).
This vaccine is new and approved after a very short time. Giving it to old people first will be like a big field study. It will show up side effects etc without risking the health or temporary debilitation of vital workers. Much useful information will be gained from it before embarking on giving it to the most vital workforce we have.

You are being ridiculous Grossmama, and frightening people unnecessarily. Sinister? Deluded more like.

I wonder how many over 80s there are who live independently, but don't drive and therefore don't have a 'safe' way of getting to a vaccination hub, or even their doctors surgery, when the vaccine is offered to them.

My mum is in this catagory, and is already wondering/worrying about how she will get around this potential problem.

It's currently compounded by the fact that in order for her to safely spend Christmas with us (120 miles away) as planned, we would all have to observe 14 days quarantine before she came to us, and any vaccine appointment that involved risky transport would almost certainly make that impossible. But that's just an additional complication, not the primary one!

Mamacaz yes,that is a concern. I'm under 60 but entitled to a flu jab for health reasons. I usually have it every year. I dont drive. The walk to surgery/ chemist is just that little bit to far,especially in bad weather. Add to that standing in a car park and then walking back again. My options were public transporr/bus. I asked the surgery if they had any suggestions, they hadn't. After some thought I havent been closer to anyone than 2metres since march and dont expect to be in foreseeable future. I felt I was putting myself more at risk by getting flu jab,although I would rather have it.
When it comes to the vaccine I suppose I will have to take the risk,although the thought of contracting covid on route to covid vaccine is grimly funny.
With regards to your mother I wonder about the NHS volunteers that were recruited by Red Cross at start of pandemic? One of their roles was to take people to medical appointments. I'm not sure how you are referred to them,I have a feeling the local council are involved. I think the local councils may also have their own volunteers as well. I wonder if it would be worth contacting your mothers council about this. I'm sure they at very least be able to give advice,and it may be a good idea to be already in system when whole process starts. Age UK may also be helpful as there must be a lot of people in your mums position.

Dorsetcupcake61
Regarding the training needed to give injections. Diabetics give them selves injections and women undergoing IVF either give themselves injections or their partners do it, so maybe it is not that hard to learn. Hope not anyway!

Ilovecheese, yes I self inject weekly with an insulin type drug. It's incredibly easy as is similar to an epi pen. I imagine these will be more traditional so fingers crossed?.

Mamacaz I am so pleased you brought this up. We live in a rural county with the 3rd biggest landmass in the UK. Moors, hills, valleys, windy lanes, coastal etc. The roads get pretty treacherous in winter. Trains often cannot get through due to heavy seas or flooding.
I raised the same question back in early November and this is the reply I got, "Some posters on here just seem to be making up hypothetical difficulties not grounded in reality at all."
Perhaps some posters on here could now enlighten Mamacaz or at least acknowledge the logistical difficulties.

Dorsetcupcake61

Your flu jab dilema does sound similar to my mum's covid one.

I have been lucky, and as a (just) under 60 have had my first free flu jab today. If OH or I didn't drive, I would have had the same problem as you, as we live several miles from the surgery where it was given. I should add that I am having to be careful for the sake of other family members.

The trouble with the suggestion of volunteers to take my mum for her jabs is that there is no more guarantee that they are virus-free than the helpful neighbours who have taken her to many other appointments throughout this epidemic. She can't walk well, but since the first lockdown ended has risked using quiet local buses when necessary, but it looks like the initial covid immunization hubs will be much further away and therefore too risky.

I fear that quite a lot of vulnerable people will turn down the immunizations because of transport problems

It’s not an issue to take a taxi to the vaccination centre provided you sit in the rear of the car and both wear masks, and it’s well ventilated, or for you to take your mum if you both do the same, as taxis are already permitted to do that to take people who don’t drive to other appointments.

It’s not ideal, but given the first vaccine has such specific storage and reconstitution requirements, it’s a price that has to be paid for now, as the only alternative will be to wait until the vaccine that can be stored in GP practice fridges is available.

Just seen your post, [Ellianne]. I hope that these problems are overcome. It seems that some people just can't relate to/accept the existence of genuine obstacles that they themselves don't face.