Oxford Vaccine approved

Thanks Genty. I didn’t realise that the first batch was coming from Netherlands and Germany, and that UK manufactured apparently not ready yet?

Greeneyedgirl

It is indeed a shambles. The problem throughout this pandemic has been lack of transparency, and this only increases the public distrust. It seems our PM is only capable of feeding us good news, often lacking coherent detail.

Clearly it is great that we have manufactured a vaccine in U.K. so quickly, but we do need to kept aware of the whole picture, and not be treated like children.

Although the Oxford vaccine was developed in the UK, initial doses are being manufactured further afield. Ian McCubbin, manufacturing lead for the UK’s Vaccine Taskforce said that while the ‘vast majority’ of the UK’s 100 million doses will come from inside the UK, the first batches will not. ‘The initial supply – and it’s a little bit of a quirk of the programme – actually comes from the Netherlands and Germany,’ he said. ‘But once that’s supplied, which we expect will be all by the end of this year, then the remainder of the supply will be a UK supply chain.
(from todays Metro newspaper)

It is indeed a shambles. The problem throughout this pandemic has been lack of transparency, and this only increases the public distrust. It seems our PM is only capable of feeding us good news, often lacking coherent detail.

Clearly it is great that we have manufactured a vaccine in U.K. so quickly, but we do need to kept aware of the whole picture, and not be treated like children.

I don’t know growstuff, but as the information about the second Pfizer delivery has come from the government website news page we have to assume it’s correct? I know Wales has also got 22,000 doses of the Astra-Zeneca vaccine for next week, that was on the Welsh BBC news yesterday. However much we receive is unlikely to be enough in the short term given the upsurge in cases though I guess.

Greeneyedgirl

Fit and finish - glass vials and bungs.

I picked that up somewhere too.

MayBee The FDA have been saying for weeks that the Oxford vaccine isn't ready for authorisation. They're not concerned about safety, but the original presentation of the data wasn't very clear with regards to efficacy of the various doses in different ages.

I don't think the new variant is the reason behind the change in dosing plans. It's because the government said it would vaccinate a million a week. It doesn't have enough doses to keep enough in reserve for second doses, so it wanted to be able to say it kept its promise. I would feel much happier if I didn't think this is a political decision not backed up by medical evidence.

It is all getting very muddled isn’t it?

What was concerning in one of DrJohns blogs is that the US aren’t planning to ok the Oxford vaccine till April. He said he hoped he was mistaken. He doesn’t seem to be concerned about the change in vaccination times. I think the transmissibility of this new strain has caused a change of plan but it doesn’t inspire confidence given that the vaccination programme needs to be done on such a huge scale. I do worry that Pfizer don’t want to lose out on massive profits because of the Oxford vaccine.

Whitewavemark2

I fervently hope that the government changes its mind on the extended interlude between the Pfizer vaccine.

Pfizer has made it crystal clear that immunity is gone after 3 weeks and before the second booster.

I can't find anywhere saying immunity is gone after 3 weeks, can you share a link please? I did find info that in the testing they spaced the doses apart in a range of 19 to 42 days, but that didn't mention loss of immunity. I do think they should stick to the original time frame as far as possible with the Pfizer vaccine. I have heard Dr John Campbell refer to findings that the Oxford vaccine benefitted from a longer gap than 3 weeks so it would make sense to plan for a longer gap (still not convinced 3 months is best) and get as many people as possible started on an immunity pathway.

In the Times newspaper today Witty has said theres a vaccine shortage!
Professor Whitty told doctors: “For every 1,000 people boosted with a second dose of Covid-19 vaccine in January, 1,000 new people can’t have substantial initial protection, which is in most cases likely to raise them from 0 per cent protected to at least 70 per cent protected.” He said that “these unvaccinated people are far more likely to end up severely ill, hospitalised and in some cases dying without a vaccine”.

Fit and finish - glass vials and bungs.

i news has reported that there may be a supply problem for “fit and finish” materials for the AV vaccine. Apparently JVT alluded to this in the broadcast with PM. I didn’t see it. Did anyone else pick this up?

If one dose gives partial protection, the result will be that the numbers of deaths go down, which will be hailed as a success by the government. It's not much consolation for individuals who were expecting almost full protection.

Pfizer has actually issued a press release about shortages and blamed supply problems. There's loads in the German press about fears there will be serious delays.

Casdon That's weird. I put Pfizer and 13 December into Google and couldn't find any reference to a further consignment to the UK, apart from the reference to Northern Ireland. I find that surprising because such a big fuss was made of the first delivery. Do you know how many further doses were received? I'm afraid I still think we're not being told the whole story.

I understand the delay with approval for the Oxford vaccine and think it was probably justified, but I agree with you MayBee. It's nonsense when changes can be made without seeking approval for the change in the dosing schedule. It all undermines confidence that people know what they're doing.

No, I think you’re right Casdon. It seems to be all about taking pressure off the NHS as quickly as possible. Which isn’t a bad thing and maybe, for once, the government are thinking on their feet. What I don’t understand is that there was such a delay with the Oxford vaccine because of the disparity in dosage and yet they can change the spacing of doses at the drop of a hat. I’ve tried to keep on top of everything vaccine wise for months now but must admit that I’m getting rather confused about the latest turn of events.

Thank you, LPJ1 for what you have done to help.

The first allocation of the Pfizer vaccination was reserved to enable those who had it to Also receive their second dose. There’s been reporting in the press about second dose appointments being cancelled, as it causes a huge amount of work for the NHS to cancel and rebook appointments on the scale required.
A second delivery of the Pfizer vaccine has been received in the UK before Christmas. www.health-ni.gov.uk/news/additional-deliveries-pfizerbiontech-covid-19-vaccine - on the basis of the NI delivery it is the same quantity per country as the first allocation.
My take is that what the Government haven’t told us explicitly is their level of concern about transmission, and that the NHS will be unable to cope, so they want to give as many people the first vaccination as possible to reduce the risk of hospitalisation. That means that the previously agreed delivery quantity for the two vaccines isn’t enough for the short term, which isn’t the fault of the manufacturers. I could be wrong of course!

LJP1

Thalidomide is still the vital treatment for leprosy.

The testing done at the time of its trials was carried out thoroughly but we didn't then know of an essential difference between the progress of pregnancies in mice and humans. Australia noticed the abnormalities first but USA continued to use the drug for ages.

We all have to face the unknown unknowns sometimes.

I think these vaccines have been well enough tested - we now have much more research background and experience of more than a century.

I had the confidence to take part in the trials YOU can benefit from - was my plunge into the unknown wasted on you? I didn't do it to protect me but to provide the experience needed by our scientists to make our society safer!

Am I right in thinking thalidomide is being used as a cancer treatment in South America? I seem to remember it being mentioned in a news item about Zika.

Whitewavemark2

vegansrock

Why the decision to delay the 2nd dose? Is it really to give more the first? Does that make any sense at all? Or is there something we aren’t being told?( i.e. not enough doses, no staff etc) Piss up and brewery come to my mind.

There is a suggestion that not enough is coming on stream fast enough, so they are mucking around with the Pfizer vaccine.

My question is if someone had the Pfizer vaccine but doesn’t have the booster for 3 months, will that result in only partial immunity?

vegansrock I think there's definitely something the public isn't being told. I'm not concerned about safety, but I am concerned about how effective the whole programme is going to be. I honestly feel the public is being treated like toddlers, for whom the truth is considered unpalatable.

A big fuss was made about 800,000 Pfizer doses arriving in the UK, ahead of anybody else, then everything went suspiciously quiet about the arrival of more doses. I know that Pfizer announced it was having problems with supplies and admitted it wouldn't be able to deliver all the doses which were promised, but I've searched in vain to find out how many doses the UK has actually received.

All we know for certain is that the UK has 800,000 doses (enough for 400,000 people) and that there have been logistical problems vaccinating the original priority group. Some centres have even run out of vaccines and turned people away.

Alarm bells started ringing when the government started boasting that more than 400,000 had received the first dose. I wondered at the time where the second doses would come from.

It now seems that there was no intention of giving the second dose within 21 days, but hoping that more would arrive within a few months. GPs and others have now been landed with the task of contacting thousands of people to cancel appointments, not being able to give an alternative appointment and finding alternative people, so that vaccine isn't wasted. GP practices have better things to do with their time and resources.

Vallance has now changed his story and said that people will have some protection after just one dose, but who knows what the truth is? Quite honestly, if I were highly vulnerable, I would want to know that I would be more than "partially protected". The vaccine never was going to be a magic wand, but I'd still be as anxious as ever.

The lack of transparency really annoys me. People have put up with a lot and I think they deserve to know what's really going on. Not only that, but this kind of thing just fuels conspiracy theories and doesn't reassure those who have been called "hesitant" about being vaccinated.

Well said and thank you LJP1.

vegansrock

Why the decision to delay the 2nd dose? Is it really to give more the first? Does that make any sense at all? Or is there something we aren’t being told?( i.e. not enough doses, no staff etc) Piss up and brewery come to my mind.

There is a suggestion that not enough is coming on stream fast enough, so they are mucking around with the Pfizer vaccine.

My question is if someone had the Pfizer vaccine but doesn’t have the booster for 3 months, will that result in only partial immunity?

Why the decision to delay the 2nd dose? Is it really to give more the first? Does that make any sense at all? Or is there something we aren’t being told?( i.e. not enough doses, no staff etc) Piss up and brewery come to my mind.

Thalidomide is still the vital treatment for leprosy.

The testing done at the time of its trials was carried out thoroughly but we didn't then know of an essential difference between the progress of pregnancies in mice and humans. Australia noticed the abnormalities first but USA continued to use the drug for ages.

We all have to face the unknown unknowns sometimes.

I think these vaccines have been well enough tested - we now have much more research background and experience of more than a century.

I had the confidence to take part in the trials YOU can benefit from - was my plunge into the unknown wasted on you? I didn't do it to protect me but to provide the experience needed by our scientists to make our society safer!